Swedes turn against cashlessness • Hacker News Board

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#61

Post by aianus » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 3:56 PM UTC

vertex-four wrote: post #39

jbob2000 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that this is good for the economy. Economies are strong when money is changing hands a lot. If people hoard all their pennies, then money isn't changing hands, business isn't growing, and the economy stagnates.

On the other hand, back to talking about real people, the less you feel like you have a sufficient buffer to last until your next paycheck, the more stressed you are. If we psychologically manipulate people into spending more than they’re naturally comfortable with, we’re creating a society that’s worse off for the people in it.

> If we psychologically manipulate people into spending more than they’re naturally comfortable with, we’re creating a society that’s worse off for the people in it.

If the average person didn't spend too much money on things they don't need, we'd have very high unemployment. The people with jobs might feel better and less stressed but a huge number of people would be extremely stressed and despondent.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#62

Post by callesgg » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 3:58 PM UTC

What a click-bait title, swedes as a people has said nothing like this.

As a swede i see no indication of it at all. It i more like the exact opposite, most people seam to hate cash and take every opportunity to move away from it.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#63

Post by toyg » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 3:58 PM UTC

Fnoord wrote: post #51

I don't know about Sweden or EU but in The Netherlands cash is legal tender. If a shop does not clearly communicate cash isn't accepted, you can consider your transaction finalized. Its the problem of the business; not the customer.

I think something was lost in translation there... cash is legal tender everywhere; that just means it's not worthless paper.

Besides, this seems a bit of an "originalist" view of commercial transactions. I bet if I tried to pull that off, the police would take a dim view. But who knows, the Netherlands are a strange place.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#64

Post by jstanley » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 4:00 PM UTC

mnw21cam wrote: post #60

Fnoord wrote: post #51

I don't know about Sweden or EU but in The Netherlands cash is legal tender. If a shop does not clearly communicate cash isn't accepted, you can consider your transaction finalized. Its the problem of the business; not the customer.

It should be noted that in the UK, legal tender has a very narrow definition - it applies only to paying a debt at a court. It doesn't apply to your local shops. This is a common misconception.

But it's de facto the same in most shops. If you pick up some goods and walk out of the shop leaving some cash on the counter... what recourse do they have?

OK, the shop might not be happy about it, but you owe them the value of goods, and you've paid them in legal tender to the correct amount.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#65

Post by aianus » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 4:02 PM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #27

icebraining wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's a good reason to push for cashless, but three seconds on average for both buyers and sellers? Only if Swedes are much faster than citizens across the rest of Europe. Giving the money, inputting the amount into the POS so it can open the register, then choosing the bills and coins - 3s seconds is about the best case scenario, in my experience.

You have to input the amount into the POS so it can start the transaction as well. Sellers here (Greece) are so used to this (they do it thousands of times a day) that it takes them almost no time to give change back. It helps that change is always segregated into proper trays/slots. Even with contactless, I always feel kind of bad to be paying by card at the super market because I'm slowing the queue down. If the am…

It's over $100 or $150 here in Canada here before you have to use the PIN. Basically never have to use the PIN in day-to-day purchases.

But yes, when the PIN comes into play it's slower than cash.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#66

Post by jstanley » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 4:02 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #63

Fnoord wrote: post #51

I don't know about Sweden or EU but in The Netherlands cash is legal tender. If a shop does not clearly communicate cash isn't accepted, you can consider your transaction finalized. Its the problem of the business; not the customer.

I think something was lost in translation there... cash is legal tender everywhere; that just means it's not worthless paper. Besides, this seems a bit of an "originalist" view of commercial transactions. I bet if I tried to pull that off, the police would take a dim view. But who knows, the Netherlands are a strange place.

Legal tender doesn't mean "not just worthless paper".

Legal tender is "Legally valid currency that may be offered in payment of a debt and that a creditor must accept." ( https://www.wordnik.com/words/legal%20tender )

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#67

Post by vertex-four » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 4:03 PM UTC

aianus wrote: post #61

vertex-four wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, back to talking about real people, the less you feel like you have a sufficient buffer to last until your next paycheck, the more stressed you are. If we psychologically manipulate people into spending more than they’re naturally comfortable with, we’re creating a society that’s worse off for the people in it.

> If we psychologically manipulate people into spending more than they’re naturally comfortable with, we’re creating a society that’s worse off for the people in it. If the average person didn't spend too much money on things they don't need, we'd have very high unemployment. The people with jobs might feel better and less stressed but a huge number of people would be extremely stressed and despondent.

If psychological manipulation to the point of causing harm to people is necessary to make our system work, maybe it's a system that doesn't work. Anyway - advertising isn't along the same lines as literally making it more difficult for people to make the connection between spending money and, well, spending money.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#68

Post by superkuh » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 4:03 PM UTC

optimusrex wrote: post #2

As an American, now living in Europe I cannot understand the pushback against cashless systems. In Germany almost every cafe, restaurant, or bar requires you pay with cash. I understand there is a slight charge to the vendor when charging to a credit or bank card, but the amount of time and energy saved by having "exact change" every transaction should increase productivity enough to cover any costs.

I see the opposite here in the USA in rural areas. People are constantly holding up the lines because of the chip/pin updates or other failures and confusions. With cash it is always just simple and quick.

And I know it doesn't matter but when you pay with a credit card or third party payment service you are not paying. Some other entity is.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#69

Post by jasonkostempski » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 4:04 PM UTC

optimusrex wrote: post #2

As an American, now living in Europe I cannot understand the pushback against cashless systems. In Germany almost every cafe, restaurant, or bar requires you pay with cash. I understand there is a slight charge to the vendor when charging to a credit or bank card, but the amount of time and energy saved by having "exact change" every transaction should increase productivity enough to cover any costs.

"but the amount of time and energy saved by having "exact change" every transaction should increase productivity enough to cover any costs."

I doubt that's the case, especially since fees are usually percent based. Someone accepting, making change for, and depositing $1000 vs. $1 takes about the same amount of effort, but $1000 charged will cost them much more than $1 charge. Maybe if the fees were flat or something like 0.001%, but they're always much higher.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#70

Post by greggarious » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 4:05 PM UTC

Cbasedlifeform wrote: post #7

Note that apart from privacy issues and technical problems (Puerto Rico blackout, anybody?) numerous studies indicate that people spend less money when using cash instead of credit cards. That's one reason for the big push by the banks, shops, restaurants, and media to "go cashless".

>Note that apart from privacy issues and technical problems (Puerto Rico blackout, anybody?) numerous studies indicate that people spend less money when using cash instead of credit cards.

This is one of the reasons why casinos use chips rather than actual currency.