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Swedes turn against cashlessness

theguardian.com

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Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#41

Post by wil421 »

phil21 wrote: post #30
optimusrex wrote: post #2

As an American, now living in Europe I cannot understand the pushback against cashless systems. In Germany almost every cafe, restaurant, or bar requires you pay with cash. I understand there is a slight charge to the vendor when charging to a credit or bank card, but the amount of time and energy saved by having "exact change" every transaction should increase productivity enough to cover any costs.

Personally it's because I think a cashless state is "evil" in that now all spending is gatekept by someone - usually a government or large business. Plus tracking every dollar you spend is also problematic for me as well. So I spend cash whenever possible simply to "vote" that I am willing to deal with a little more hassle in the name of freedom. I also don't like that some private party has effectively inserted them…

What you just described can be applied to banks just like payment transaction companies. They both exist to make our lives easier and prevent us from having to hoard cash under our mattresses. They also provide a safe means of doing business.

We live in a digital age and it’s only going to evolve faster. Money is nothing more than numbers in a system.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#42

Post by amorphid »

phil21 wrote: post #30
optimusrex wrote: post #2

As an American, now living in Europe I cannot understand the pushback against cashless systems. In Germany almost every cafe, restaurant, or bar requires you pay with cash. I understand there is a slight charge to the vendor when charging to a credit or bank card, but the amount of time and energy saved by having "exact change" every transaction should increase productivity enough to cover any costs.

Personally it's because I think a cashless state is "evil" in that now all spending is gatekept by someone - usually a government or large business. Plus tracking every dollar you spend is also problematic for me as well. So I spend cash whenever possible simply to "vote" that I am willing to deal with a little more hassle in the name of freedom. I also don't like that some private party has effectively inserted them…

It's a money loser to not accept credit cards, too. I don't like carrying cash. I'm likely to skip a cash only restaurant even if I want to eat there because I want to charge purchase & I don't have cash.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#43

Post by gsnedders »

kazagistar wrote: post #21
Overtonwindow wrote: post #11

If businesses prefer cashless transactions, what about allowing cash but with a premium? Similar to how some American businesses give a discount if you use cash. I also wonder what the transaction fees in Sweden are, compared to the rest of the world.

The cash premium already exists, since you can get some of the money from each purchase back on your credit card.

Only in some places; credit cards are relatively rare in Sweden (everyone uses debit cards), and rewards are generally mediocre at best.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#44

Post by freedomben »

jbob2000 wrote: post #24
Cbasedlifeform wrote: post #7

Note that apart from privacy issues and technical problems (Puerto Rico blackout, anybody?) numerous studies indicate that people spend less money when using cash instead of credit cards. That's one reason for the big push by the banks, shops, restaurants, and media to "go cashless".

I'd argue that this is good for the economy. Economies are strong when money is changing hands a lot. If people hoard all their pennies, then money isn't changing hands, business isn't growing, and the economy stagnates.

I disagree. There's certainly short term benefit to this Keynesian view, but long term it leads to wild volatility, partly because people are only one pay check away from ruin. When only the wealthy have a store of money to draw on in harder times (job or income source loss, broken appliances/vehicles/etc), it further harms the poor. It's a regressive policy because it disproportionately harms the poor. It forces people into leveraging credit each time a moderate to large expense comes up. That's not a fun way to live.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#46

Post by baud147258 »

optimusrex wrote: post #5
jmnicolas wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you're not used to pay with cash but for people that are used to it, it's not slower than using plastic. And sometimes it's even faster, when the card or the card reader don't work, the customer is old etc.

With the new addition of Pay Wave where you can simply tap a card on a sensor, I do not see how paying with cash and then waiting for the teller to sort of the bills and provide the right change can be faster. I understand I need to become more accustomed to the culture that I immigrate too, but that does not mean that there are not more efficient solutions compared to "the way its always been". As for the card reade…

I'm always taking lunch with a handfull of other devs from where I'm working. All the other pay cash, I'm always paying with a contactless card and I'm always taking more time, even when I don't have to enter the PIN.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#47

Post by icebraining »

StavrosK wrote: post #34
icebraining wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to input the amount into the POS so it can start the transaction as well Where are you buying that has payment queues but doesn't scan the products? I only see people inputting the amount manually in restaurants/bars.

Where are you buying that you have to enter the amount into the POS to open the drawer but not to start the card transaction? You can't consider the time it takes to enter the amount only in the case that suits you. If you have to enter the amount for cash, you have to enter it for the card as well.

You have to enter the amount the person is actually delivering... If the total is 18.45€, I'll probably be paying with a 20€, which the cashier has to input.

Now that I think of it, I guess not all POSs require that (the cashier does the calculation for the change in their head), but in my experience they aren't common.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#48

Post by pilsetnieks »

ciocan42 wrote: post #20

From what I've seen here in London (UK), mostly tourists use cash. Everybody else uses contactless payments. You can pay with contactless cards or apple/android pay on the public transport or on your corner grocery store. And with the new fin-tech banks like Monzo, Starling or Revolut the banking apps are light years ahead of traditional banks.

Because of currency exchange fees that would be incurred by using cards or other options (although Sweden has the same problem.) Within the eurozone I don't even bother taking any extra cash with me.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#49

Post by 1337biz »

amorphid wrote: post #42
phil21 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally it's because I think a cashless state is "evil" in that now all spending is gatekept by someone - usually a government or large business. Plus tracking every dollar you spend is also problematic for me as well. So I spend cash whenever possible simply to "vote" that I am willing to deal with a little more hassle in the name of freedom. I also don't like that some private party has effectively inserted them…

It's a money loser to not accept credit cards, too. I don't like carrying cash. I'm likely to skip a cash only restaurant even if I want to eat there because I want to charge purchase & I don't have cash.

As soon as you are offering some form of card payment somebody can calculate what % is usually in that kind of business transacted via credit cards, therefore knows how realistic the reported revenue is.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#50

Post by pilsetnieks »

1001101 wrote: post #32
duality wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldnt people still save "cash" electronically in a savings account, say?

What's the nominal/real yield on that account? When savings rates are negative nominal (which cashless may presage) or negative real, the carry on hard assets becomes positive, making them more attractive.

Cash isn't getting any more valuable, either. What are you suggesting? Hoarding gold bars?
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