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Ask HN: what does Microsoft sell that you can't get for free?

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Re: Ask HN: what does Microsoft sell that you can't get for free?

#111
No one's really mentioned some of their heavy hitting Enterprise stuff other than Exchange and Office, like Dynamics AX. That type of stuff has very little to fear from FOSS, and more to fear from companies like Oracle and SAP, which are going nowhere.

Here's a post with some recent numbers:

http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_blog/archive/2010/07/28...

Re: Ask HN: what does Microsoft sell that you can't get for free?

#112
Being a tech driven outfit, we have people that like Macs, like *BSD, like Windows (except Vista, we all hated Vista) and even tinkerers with fringe OSes.

We tried Ubuntu in the workplace for admin staff at the same time as Vista. They preferred Ubuntu to Vista, but really wanted XP.

Because of the mixed environment (and the problems with running mixed Office 2003/7) we moved to OpenOffice. Most people are comfortable with it to a lesser or greater degree, generally those not running Windows do better, but it allows us to do things that we could never do in a sole Windows environment. We keep an Office 2007 licence around in case anyone needs to use .docx etc.

Having said that we're looking at Office 2010 as the split office environment compatibility issues no longer apply and it does look light years ahead of Go-OO.

Google docs is fine for real time collaboration, but Google Talk is essential.

I'd also take business Gmail over Exchange any day. Calendars, Gtalk, Docs, everything. It's just so much better. For us, privacy can be addressed through policy, although that might not apply for everyone.

Re: Ask HN: what does Microsoft sell that you can't get for free?

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about accessing OLAP databases, but it seems like a bad idea, anyway. The programmability of OpenOffice is quite powerful and workflows can and are automated with it. Visual Studio is not bad for people with little understanding of development. Unfortunately, CS schools turn out many people like that these days. I don't know why people want tools that get in the way and slow you down as much as Visual St…

I also don't get the built in unreliability comment, either. Windows has been pretty darn stable since they went to the NT kernel. Really, all three main desktop OSs are pretty stable these days. I get a BSOD on Windows 7 maybe once every six months or so, and that's with ~8 hours a day in front of a windows box at work. I'd rate my OSX home box just slightly less stable than that, but when you're talking about such…

I was talking about reliability, not stability. The activation Windows has used for a while makes the product unreliable. This may not be obvious at first. I had a client with a computer problem, which ended up needing some replacement hardware. The computer needed reactivation, and the owner asked me what assurance she had that it could be activated in another 3 years when some other part died. The computer was running a very expensive piece of vertical industry software that only ran on one version of Windows. I read everything I could find and talked to several senior Microsoft engineers. The answer is that nothing assures that I'll be able to activate Windows to keep a business critical process running. I get vague statements that the engineers can't see why Microsoft would stop the activations, but nothing I can tell someone to bet their business on. I can understand why most people don't see this problem. I did not see it, until prompted by a customer.

Re: Ask HN: what does Microsoft sell that you can't get for free?

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about accessing OLAP databases, but it seems like a bad idea, anyway. The programmability of OpenOffice is quite powerful and workflows can and are automated with it. Visual Studio is not bad for people with little understanding of development. Unfortunately, CS schools turn out many people like that these days. I don't know why people want tools that get in the way and slow you down as much as Visual St…

> Visual Studio is not bad for people with little understanding of development. You do know that Visual Studio is not just a drag-and-drop visual designer tool right? This is the most insulting gibberish I've read all day.

Yes, I know that. And, I have seen developers at a loss of what to do when some gui developer tool is not available. One problem is the use of the gui tool seems to put people too far from what is really going on. Most users probably need a gui to be productive. A gui may be productive for some developer tasks, but a developer should understand what is really happening and be able to work without one.

I work mostly in Python, and that affects my view, I am sure. But, even when I did mostly c/c++, I knew it was useful to be able to ssh to a foreign machine, edit a file and recompile and execute a program.

The view I expresses is one I also hear from other developers. I cannot help how you perceive it, but it is still true.

Re: Ask HN: what does Microsoft sell that you can't get for free?

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also don't get the built in unreliability comment, either. Windows has been pretty darn stable since they went to the NT kernel. Really, all three main desktop OSs are pretty stable these days. I get a BSOD on Windows 7 maybe once every six months or so, and that's with ~8 hours a day in front of a windows box at work. I'd rate my OSX home box just slightly less stable than that, but when you're talking about such…

I was talking about reliability, not stability. The activation Windows has used for a while makes the product unreliable. This may not be obvious at first. I had a client with a computer problem, which ended up needing some replacement hardware. The computer needed reactivation, and the owner asked me what assurance she had that it could be activated in another 3 years when some other part died. The computer was runn…

Ok, yeah, I've run into that before, and it is a pain. But I've heard that if you call Microsoft they'll always reactivate a license in that situation.

Re: Ask HN: what does Microsoft sell that you can't get for free?

#116
The last line is what's most important.

So many people keep buying Office because it's all they've ever known, and it works. And you see that much more on the older side of 40. But for the future generations, that do know about OpenOffice and GoogleDocs, well why would they pay for Office?

Look at actual computer sales too. Windows obviously has an overwhelming market share, but look at colleges. When incoming freshmen are looking at what to buy, not many are saying "I really want that new Windows 7 Dell laptop!". Instead everyone wants the sleek, sexy MacBooks - I'd say anywhere from 60-70%. College students today are the consumers of the future, and if they buy Mac for college they're probably going to stick to Macs for a long time.

Microsoft isn't retarded though (okay maybe Balmer is), they know the situation. Zune, Xbox, Microsoft retail stores? You think Microsoft needed that 10 years ago?

Re: Ask HN: what does Microsoft sell that you can't get for free?

#117

Primarily, I'd say it's application software support on Windows. Games? You get a few working under Wine, sometimes, partly, but they're far more likely to work well under the version of Windows they were tested with. Photo editing? Photoshop, or even Corel PhotoPaint, leave Linux in the dust. Video editing software? Nothing on Linux comes close to Vegas Video in features and usability. 3d Graphics? A slew of high-en…

I would have said photo editing too, but I've been watching my wife use Photobucket's web based image editor and surprised at how content she seems with it. I've used Photoshop so long that using any other 2d graphic app feels awkward, but the coming "web generation" might feel more comfortable using HTML 5 apps in the future.

I left off a rant about "good enough" destroying the market for power-user software, because I was getting too much off topic.

But roughly: Yes. The cloud may win over the hearts and minds of a younger generation, and they may be happy using one of the many application suites online.

And then they become tied to having a constant $50-$100/month data plan so they can actually use their computer anywhere but at home.

I'm waiting for unlimited/anywhere wireless plans to come down to closer to the $10/month level before I allow my computing to be based in the cloud.

Re: Ask HN: what does Microsoft sell that you can't get for free?

#118
post #87
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but saying that Blender is the only 3D app for Linux is simply incorrect. Maya, XSI and Houdini plus several other professional 3D apps all run on Linux.

"Linux infrastructure was heavily used in Avatar's graphics rendering done by Weta Digital [...] The Data Center of Weta Digital was re-built in 2008 and consists of 34 racks and more than 4,000 Hewlett-Packard blade servers with a 104TB of RAM. Ubuntu is at the core of all of this, running on all of the rendering nodes, and 90% of the desktops at Weta Digital, according to Paul Gunn, the data center's systems admini…

3d rendering isn't what I need. I need 3d models for games.

Re: Ask HN: what does Microsoft sell that you can't get for free?

#119
post #65

Primarily, I'd say it's application software support on Windows. Games? You get a few working under Wine, sometimes, partly, but they're far more likely to work well under the version of Windows they were tested with. Photo editing? Photoshop, or even Corel PhotoPaint, leave Linux in the dust. Video editing software? Nothing on Linux comes close to Vegas Video in features and usability. 3d Graphics? A slew of high-en…

I'm sorry, but saying that Blender is the only 3D app for Linux is simply incorrect. Maya, XSI and Houdini plus several other professional 3D apps all run on Linux.

I stand corrected (though the one I've used most myself -- Max -- isn't on Linux). I'm not a 3D artist; I just use 3D models in games, and so have only really looked at free options. Which, when I last looked, were somewhat shabby. I just want someone to make a decent but free 3D model editor that supports skeletal animation (sorry, Sketchup).

The remainder, however, are still unchallenged. Photoshop is considered unchallenged on the PC (though for what I do I like Corel PhotoPaint), so I think it would make quite a splash if it were challenged on Linux.

Re: Ask HN: what does Microsoft sell that you can't get for free?

#120
Things that I don't need to get separately when I buy a computer.

I'm not advocating for Microsoft. In fact, I use Linux, Open Office, and Gmail. But for regular consumer, they just want something that comes in one package and works without additional effort. That's why iPad is hitting the spot, because it's even more packaged than a Microsoft PC. Microsoft couldn't careless about Ubuntu, but they should definitely be worried about iPad (or packaged computing device in general).

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