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Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

nytimes.com

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Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#211

Post by am_i_legal »

kevindong wrote: post #208

I never understood why anyone young would start smoking. Throughout my K-12 education, I was told every single year that smoking is bad and all that jazz (i.e. shown pictures of what a smoker's lungs look like, shown documentaries on the negative effects, etc.). It definitely isn't for lack of trying of my school district's part, and yet high single digit percentages of my peers in high school were using some form of…

not a smoker, but asked a lot of smokers on why they smoke.

reasons:

1). exclusive social 'networks' - see smokers gathered during 'smoking breaks'

2). looks cool

seriously, someone should make a e-cigarette that looks exactly like a cigar...

ps: as for all those non-smokers, pretend to cough when someone is smoking on public space. tell them it looks shit when someone smokes.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#212

Post by LyndsySimon »

TFortunato wrote: post #80
LyndsySimon wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have all sorts of metals, liquids, flavoring compounds, wicks, etc Metal content is negligible unless you dry hit. No one likes that so it's pretty much a self-limiting problem. Flavoring compounds, though... there are liquids out there that contain diacetyl (a "buttery" flavoring). It's relatively common in foods, but is known specifically to cause issues when heated and inhaled. ETA: I just saw that this is m…

Sorry to be "that guy", but could you explain what you mean by metal content being negligible unless you dry hit? I assumed when people were talking about metal content, they were referring to metal vapors from the heating elements or something, but I'll admit that I don't know enough about this, or what a dry hit is vs. normal use, or how we know when metal vapors or whatever are/aren't a concern. (I feel so old rig…

My understanding is that the metal doesn't get hot enough to bind to end up in the vapor in any quantity as long as the heating element is immersed in liquid. A "dry hit" is when you take a drag on the device when there is no liquid or not enough liquid in contact with the heating element. It tastes terrible, burns out coils faster, and burns your throat.

The only study I've seen that shows that heavy metals in vapor is an issue used conditions that are unlikely to occur in "real life" because of this. The argument seems to be that one could become accustomed to it through the cravings associated with nicotine withdrawal, but I honestly find that unlikely. In reality, you'd burn your coil up in short order, and if you can afford a new coil you'd have been buying more liquid in the first place.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#213

Post by duxup »

kevindong wrote: post #208

I never understood why anyone young would start smoking. Throughout my K-12 education, I was told every single year that smoking is bad and all that jazz (i.e. shown pictures of what a smoker's lungs look like, shown documentaries on the negative effects, etc.). It definitely isn't for lack of trying of my school district's part, and yet high single digit percentages of my peers in high school were using some form of…

While I don't doubt that social aspects play a part. I wonder how much of it is some sort of self medicating with the nicotine.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#214

Post by alpos »

cctt23 wrote: post #205
jacobolus wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I speculate that standing near existing (heavily regulated) combustion vehicles, going to existing (heavily regulated) restaurants, cooking using existing (regulated) methods and tools, etc. has a decent chance of being a greater health risk than breathing nicotine alone. I am not an expert though, so would love to hear some actual evidence about it. We have now had decades of (publicly beneficial) propaganda effort…

http://acronymrequired.com/2011/10/the-four-dog-defense.html It’s a bit wearying to hear the old chestnuts trotted out here of all places. It seems like bad arguments and FUD never really change, they just finds new adherents.

This seems like you are being argumentative for no good reason. You may have misread the above post.

It seems to me that jacobolus was not defending vaping but merely wondering if we're all being a bit over-reactive at this point.

That position is not so much comparable to your referenced four-dog-defense as it is to something like "you've got a better chance of being killed by a lightening bolt than killed in a terrorist attack".

And that is a valid point to make when discussing any issue involving risk. Humans are prone to reacting to perceived risks without considering comparative risks factors. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/11/perceived_ris...

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#215

Post by hanklazard »

jacobolus wrote: post #173
cbhl wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. That means that in a school of of 360 kids (30 students * 3 classes * 4 grades), ~36 of them are now nicotine users through vaping. You may as well dedicate an entire classroom to holding detention. The US was slowly reducing the number of middle schoolers who smoke cigarettes. According to the CDC, cigarette use dropped from 4.3% in 2011 to 2.2% in 2016. [1] This would be a 5x reversal in less than a year. That…

Cigarettes cause high rates of lung cancer, killing tons of people. It makes sense to heavily discourage teenagers from using them. As far as I am aware (I am not an expert about or user of any of these products) the risks from vaping are much less severe. Is the concern just that the activity is nominally unlawful? Or that it will be a “gateway drug” (is there any evidence of that)? Or that it is a waste of students…

My concern would be around the long-term effects of inhaling vapor from heated metal alloys. I doubt that we have enough safety data, given the newness of the tech and (I assume) the variety of metals being used. That being said, I’m no expert so please chime in if you have information around this concern.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#216

Post by s73v3r_ »

jacobolus wrote: post #173
cbhl wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. That means that in a school of of 360 kids (30 students * 3 classes * 4 grades), ~36 of them are now nicotine users through vaping. You may as well dedicate an entire classroom to holding detention. The US was slowly reducing the number of middle schoolers who smoke cigarettes. According to the CDC, cigarette use dropped from 4.3% in 2011 to 2.2% in 2016. [1] This would be a 5x reversal in less than a year. That…

Cigarettes cause high rates of lung cancer, killing tons of people. It makes sense to heavily discourage teenagers from using them. As far as I am aware (I am not an expert about or user of any of these products) the risks from vaping are much less severe. Is the concern just that the activity is nominally unlawful? Or that it will be a “gateway drug” (is there any evidence of that)? Or that it is a waste of students…

Not if more are taking up vaping than would otherwise be taking up cigarettes.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#217

Post by Houshalter »

refurb wrote: post #129
Symbiote wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK's NHS says "particularly if you've already tried other methods of quitting smoking without success, you might want to give e-cigarettes a go" and "according to current evidence on e-cigarettes, they carry a fraction of the risk of cigarettes." https://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/smoking/Pages/e-cigarettes.aspx

Wow. Hats off to the NHS. Is vaping harmless? Unlikely. Based on current understanding is it likely much less harmful than smoking tobacco? Yes.

Why is this even controversial? Vaping removes almost all of the known dangers from smoking. We know smoke inhalation itself is incredibly bad for health. It was never about the nicotine. Wood smoke and general pollution is highly associated with cancer and bad health and no better than tobacco smoke. There's some evidence humans have been evolving resistance to it since the invention of fire. Suggesting it's actually been a significant source of death in our species. Smokers houses are covered in foul smelling yellow residue, of course it's hurting their lungs. Smokers are actually exposed to more radiation from tobacco than the legal limit for radiation workers.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#218

Post by s73v3r_ »

vkou wrote: post #206
narag wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always surprised that the main reason people smoke is not cited first. For all you that haven't done it: smoking causes pleasure. A fast, intense and repeatable pleasure.

As someone who's never smoked, but has stood next to people who have, I would guess it does quite the opposite. I imagine most people who don't smoke think this.

The first times you do it, it feels pretty good. Really good, in fact. However, like any drug, you develop a tolerance and a dependence. Before long, you require it to feel normal, not to feel good.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#219

Post by s73v3r_ »

kevindong wrote: post #208

I never understood why anyone young would start smoking. Throughout my K-12 education, I was told every single year that smoking is bad and all that jazz (i.e. shown pictures of what a smoker's lungs look like, shown documentaries on the negative effects, etc.). It definitely isn't for lack of trying of my school district's part, and yet high single digit percentages of my peers in high school were using some form of…

"I never understood why anyone young would start smoking"

To look cool.

No, seriously, that's one of the main reasons. To look cool in front of one's peers. You might not have cared about such things, or feel pressure to engage in them. If so, I'm happy for you. But that doesn't mean others don't.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#220

Post by chillwaves »

vkou wrote: post #206
narag wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always surprised that the main reason people smoke is not cited first. For all you that haven't done it: smoking causes pleasure. A fast, intense and repeatable pleasure.

As someone who's never smoked, but has stood next to people who have, I would guess it does quite the opposite. I imagine most people who don't smoke think this.

You are saying that people who smoke do not enjoy smoking?
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