Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#631

Post by resoluti0n » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:47 PM UTC

Myrmornis wrote: post #505

sreque wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard it said that the greatest minds of our generation are thinking about how to make people click ads. However, I feel like the greatest minds of our generation are spent trying to figure out how to enable people to build Linux software on OSX. Whether it is: * a convoluted process involving Vagrant, Docker, or both, because you depend on one or more pieces of software that don't run at all on OSX, including D…

I did maintain a Linux laptop (Ubuntu) for all my personal and development usage, from 2003-2011. Based on my experience at that time, it is entirely incorrect to claim that the experience with device drivers (wifi, bluetooth) and sleep/suspend/hibernate is better on Linux. Those things basically never worked right, battery experience was terrible, and many times during that era I lost a day's work because something…

The device drivers compatibility and availability on Linux these days has never been better. Even better than Windows and OS X out of the box in many cases. Seriously, there has been huge improvements in the last few years.

If you want to run Linux on a laptop and get the best experience, a Mac is not the best option. Thinkpad (business class X and T series) is what you are looking for.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#632

Post by gurkendoktor » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:48 PM UTC

stiGGG wrote: post #514

FridgeSeal wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean the laptops are great. Provided you don't need a HDMI port. Or more than 1 spare USB port. Or am ethernet port. You could get the touch-bar version, but I've read literally nothing but bad reviews and stories about that thing, plus tb versions have smaller batteries. Yes, I could get a dock, but here's a better idea: how about apple chills out on their unnecessary-thinness fetish, and givese back some actual f…

With touch bar i agree, it hate it. But the thunderbolt dock thingie totally rocks. It's really nice to only plug in one cable to connect the complete hardware on your desk (multiple screens, ethernet, power, etc).

TB3 is definitely an improvement over the TB2 ports on previous Macs. But there's no reason Apple couldn't build a laptop that has both TB3 and HDMI/USB-A ports.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#633

Post by bb88 » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:49 PM UTC

tjr225 wrote: post #590

bb88 wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, 1. Getting packages with apt on ubuntu without installing homebrew. It's vastly simpler and natively supported by ubuntu. I can also update my entire system with sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade. 2. Native docker support. 3. On mac, I always ask the question whether something is ctrl-c or cmd-c, say. On linux it's always ctrl. 4. I don't have to login to the apple store to get the software I need.…

2 - docker works flawlessly on macos 4 - i cant think of a single application, outside of maybe xcode, a developer might need to sign into the app store for 6 - whatever reasons that youtuber might have for not using macbooks, i will never buy a non-mac notebook ever again. this 2013 13" mbp has been the best and most reliable computer I have ever had in 30 years and I bought it used! 7 - sure the apple brand is cool…

6: Go watch a few videos. He repairs macbooks -- for a living. Apple just keeps sending business his way.

Pro-tip: If you spill water on the keyboard, shut the MBP off immediately and send it in to the apple repair shop to get cleaned. If the MBP is on while there's water on the logic board, rust will form, either short circuiting chips, or rusting out the copper traces.

7: Apple used to be an amazing technology company giving the world wonderful computing devices. Today, it's a fashion accessory company. Mac OS doesn't run in the cloud. It is not the core OS that runs our infrastructure or space programs. And lastly it doesn't capture our imagination anymore. That throne has been passed to Elon Musk with Tesla, SpaceX and Hyperloop.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#634

Post by wokwokwok » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:49 PM UTC

bwat49 wrote: post #624

freehunter wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the problem with saying "this is better for computer scientists": It's the same argument every time someone says "the Macbook Pro is not a professional device". Not every computer scientist has the same needs. There are a lot of CS folks who will never need to recompile a kernel or even get into the OS internals. For those people, having to do that is a major downside to any computer. So the obvious choice is…

> and it's not going to work if I'm copying and pasting kernel code from Stack Overflow to get my trackpad to scroll the correct direction When was the last time you used a linux desktop, 2005? On any linux desktop I can think of (MATE, Gnome, KDE) this is a matter of going to Settings | Mouse & Touchpad | check or un-check the natural scrolling box as desired

Oh pish posh.

I had to go into recovery mode last week because an automatic kernel upgrade broke.

You're doing that thing where you ignore the argument to refute a tiny irrelevant point of the argument.

Thats a rhetoic device for arguing without content, like the whole 'attacking the person not the argument'.

Your point is not compelling and does not refute the parent comment.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#635

Post by Clubber » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:49 PM UTC

nqzero wrote: post #589

khedoros1 wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux distros are by far the best environment for a computer scientists - made by developers, for developers - but there's no major vendor that sells machines with Linux pre-installed and supported, and getting Linux installed on the newest Surface or Dell toy is often a challenge that gets many frustrated. Is there any reason why something like the various Dell machines preloaded with Ubuntu or RHEL wouldn't count…

for laptops, dell seems to love 16:9 aspect ratio, which makes them inappropriate for development. for workstations, every dell i've seen uses custom cases that prevent upgrading the motherboard with an OTS component

I hate the 16:9 ratio and everyone uses it. It's probably cheaper since that's the same ratio as full HD which is used in many TV panels. A 1920x1200 monitor is much better than a 1920:1080 for me for coding.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#636

Post by jmagoon » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:50 PM UTC

sreque wrote: post #433

mark_l_watson wrote: post #229

This might just be a bargaining move on Apple’s part, but I don’t think so. I think that long term they are much better off controlling their entire hardware stack. I wouldn’t be surprised to even see them make their own display screens. As an Apple customer, I like this idea also. For 20 years, I used to be a desktop Linux fanatic and later became a fan of Android. In the last few years, I have switched to using all…

I am a software developer, and I detest working on my mac laptop. At $lastjob I had a Linux desktop and it is, I believe, the most productive environment I have ever developed in. The job before, I had a windows desktop, and I prefer that to mac. You say you want to just "get things done expediently," but in my experience apple software is flat out inferior and OSX is the worst of the 3 major operating systems I have…

Find me a 15" 16:10 or 4:3 laptop with a *nix based OS, 4 cores, and 16GB of RAM and I'll switch any day. Unfortunately, there's only one choice for all those requirements right now.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#637

Post by bb88 » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:52 PM UTC

fooker wrote: post #608

bb88 wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, 1. Getting packages with apt on ubuntu without installing homebrew. It's vastly simpler and natively supported by ubuntu. I can also update my entire system with sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade. 2. Native docker support. 3. On mac, I always ask the question whether something is ctrl-c or cmd-c, say. On linux it's always ctrl. 4. I don't have to login to the apple store to get the software I need.…

>On linux it's always ctrl. Unless you want to copy from the terminal, where it is ctrl + shift + C.

I highlight the text and middle mouse button for paste.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#638

Post by fnord123 » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:53 PM UTC

ratsimihah wrote: post #520

sreque wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a software developer, and I detest working on my mac laptop. At $lastjob I had a Linux desktop and it is, I believe, the most productive environment I have ever developed in. The job before, I had a windows desktop, and I prefer that to mac. You say you want to just "get things done expediently," but in my experience apple software is flat out inferior and OSX is the worst of the 3 major operating systems I have…

What does Linux give you that macOS doesn’t? I use both a Mac and an Arch Linux running i3/awesomewm, and to me macOS is like any Linux distro with a user-friendly desktop environment. I guess it doesn’t have an « official » package manager, but homebrew has most packages anyway?

> What does Linux give you that macOS doesn’t?

perf, case sensitive file systems, non stupid alt-tab behaviour, strace, pstack, gdb (these don't seem to work without sacrificing animals), gnome-shell (better than finder by a long way, imo).

I've got a mac. I don't install programs except for things through brew. It's basically shitty linux with outlook.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#639

Post by tathougies » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:56 PM UTC

mynameisvlad wrote: post #269

tathougies wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has more experience with architecture changes than many other companies. In general, transitioning to a new processor architecture is very straightforward, and way easier than switching to a new OS. The reason why windows on ARM never caught on was simply that windows was still available for x86. With apple it's different though, because once (Or if) they switch, then the only way to be on OS X is through the u…

Well, except it's not that simple at all. Even if they immediately discontinue all previous models and only introduce new architecture models in one go, you still have several years worth of computers sitting on x86/x64. They won't be able to get rid of it in the OS until at least the mid-2020s. As an example with the PPC->x86 move, they released Rosetta in 2005, stopped pre-installing it in 2009, and only in 2011 di…

The technology to do this is already there. Apple will likely extend some piece of open-source work or acquire a small company which specializes in emulating x86 on whatever architecture they transition to. Emulators are complicated pieces of software, but they are well understood ones. We know how to make them reasonably performant, and Apple has had around four major architecture changes under its belt from which it can draw experience.

The existence of Rosetta does not prove the transition to be 'complicated'. It just shows the transition was a thing

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#640

Post by randallsquared » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:56 PM UTC

bwat49 wrote: post #624

freehunter wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the problem with saying "this is better for computer scientists": It's the same argument every time someone says "the Macbook Pro is not a professional device". Not every computer scientist has the same needs. There are a lot of CS folks who will never need to recompile a kernel or even get into the OS internals. For those people, having to do that is a major downside to any computer. So the obvious choice is…

> and it's not going to work if I'm copying and pasting kernel code from Stack Overflow to get my trackpad to scroll the correct direction When was the last time you used a linux desktop, 2005? On any linux desktop I can think of (MATE, Gnome, KDE) this is a matter of going to Settings | Mouse & Touchpad | check or un-check the natural scrolling box as desired

In my experience, having the setting doesn’t make it work. Oh, it works some of the time. In order to make it work MOST of the time, you’ll need to change it in more than one place, at least in X11. And Wayland doesn’t play nice with nvidia, yet. (Not implying who is at fault).