[deleted]
Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel
171–180 of 1001 posts
Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
And before that they successfully managed the transition from m68k to PPC. The processor doesn't matter.
It does matter that the new processor is a lot more powerful and faster than the old processor. This wouldn't be the case this time.
Maybe the first few hardware revisions it won't be as performant. Its probably going to be an Armbook that will have the form factor of the Air or the Macbook but with A12 chips. The current A11s are in striking distance for performance.
Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel
#173Based on this article, it doesn't sound like Bloomberg has enough information to distinguish between Apple being committed to a transition, or Apple developing chips to improve their negotiating position with Intel. It's also very unlikely to happen on such a fast timetable; given the IP situation, it's unlikely Apple could make an x86_64 chip, and any move away from x86_64 is going to require significant work by thi…
Apple did a pretty decent job when they transitioned from PPC to x86_64, it has Rosetta to translate PPC to x86. Microsoft and partners released ARM based Windows Laptops this year that can run Win32 apps in emulation. What's stopping Apple from shipping Macbooks with a custom SoC that can run existing Apps in emulation until developers can recompile? I would argue that most Air and Macbook owners aren't developers a…
Creatives who want hardware optimized Adobe apps to continue to be fast will care. I wouldn't count on emulation of vectorized code to work all that well.
Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel
#174AMD has the rights to produce x86 compatible CPUs. If Apple were to design the chips but AMD manufactured them on contract, would that avoid IP/licensing issues with Intel?
No. Without an architectural license Apple can't design chips without being sued. They could set up a partnership though, similar to Zhaoxin, a joint venture between VIA and the Shanghai Muni.
Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
What if it turns out not to be based on the ARM architecture?
If they are not sticking with x86, it basically has to be ARM. Producing a new CPU architecture is very costly endeavor and other CPUs exist. However because they already have experience making chips for iPhone and friends and ARM is at least "good enough", it makes sense for them to go all in with ARM.
Who's to say they can't manufacture their own x86 chips a la AMD?
Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel
#176This is such an obvious move, that I predicted it 2 years ago: https://medium.com/@Jernfrost/in-3-years-apple-will-switch-f... My prediction in 2016, was that Apple would switch to ARM based laptops in 2019, so it looks like I am off by just 1 year. A quick summary of my argument back then was that ARM was getting fast ENOUGH, but are considerably cheaper. Standardizing on one CPU architecture for all their products…
What if it turns out not to be based on the ARM architecture?
That would definitely be an interesting and very surprising development. Like I would really like to hear Apple's rational for developing an x86 CPU.
x86 is a far more complex CPU architecture which they have zero experience in making. ARM in contrast they have experience with all the way back to Newton, and it has a nice licensing preposition.
I can't see them doing something different than ARM and x86. That would be an enormous undertaking to come up with an entirely new CPU architecture.
x86 really has nothing going for it architecture wise. It just has a market because Intel makes fast chips that run existing software. ARM is a better architecture, and Apple already has the toolchain to make software run on that architecture.
If you asked two equally competent chip makers to make a fast chip, and one was given x86 architecture and the other ARM, I am certain the ones who got ARM would win. x86 is just winning today because intel is filthy rich and can pour insane amount of money on x86 to make up for all this short comings.
Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's also very unlikely to happen on such a fast timetable the article (thin as it is) claims a multi-step transition. Apple almost certainly has a version of Mac OS that can run on their iPad hardware - the transition path that makes the most sense to me is a 12" MacBook that runs essentially the same internal hardware as an iPad pro, and a MacOS that can run iOS apps. There would be a great consumer market for a…
I’m still very skeptical of the “Mac that can run iOS apps” concept. Tim Cook has been pretty unambiguous in his statements about Mac vs iPad. https://www.macrumors.com/2015/11/16/tim-cook-no-converged-m... >We feel strongly that customers are not really looking for a converged Mac and iPad, because what that would wind up doing, or what we’re worried would happen, is that neither experience would be as good as the c…
Apple has a long history of saying one thing and doing another (I don't blame them; the "Elop effect" is real: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Elop#%22Burning_Platfo...).
Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's also very unlikely to happen on such a fast timetable the article (thin as it is) claims a multi-step transition. Apple almost certainly has a version of Mac OS that can run on their iPad hardware - the transition path that makes the most sense to me is a 12" MacBook that runs essentially the same internal hardware as an iPad pro, and a MacOS that can run iOS apps. There would be a great consumer market for a…
I’m still very skeptical of the “Mac that can run iOS apps” concept. Tim Cook has been pretty unambiguous in his statements about Mac vs iPad. https://www.macrumors.com/2015/11/16/tim-cook-no-converged-m... >We feel strongly that customers are not really looking for a converged Mac and iPad, because what that would wind up doing, or what we’re worried would happen, is that neither experience would be as good as the c…
Of course this is from 2015, and it’s possible they’ve been prototyping for years and think they can overcome the fear of a subpar device.
But as a former Surface Pro owner who now has an iPad Pro, I don’t see that happening. The iPad is immeasurably better as a tablet when you have tablet-oriented software available. And when you don’t, obviously the Surface’s compromise of “have a crappy desktop experience too” is usable if you need to have that option. But it’s not good compared to stuff designed for a tablet.
Similarly, the chunks of Windows 10 that are clearly designed for touchscreens (like the new Settings app) are not great on a desktop compared to the older and still more powerful control panel. More consistent, sure, as any ground-up redo would be, but the information density of things like the Add or Remove Programs list is awful compared to what it was before.
I don’t think Apple is going to make those compromises. They might do a more converged developer backened for Mac and iOS to make it easier to target both platforms, but they won’t shove the frontends together.
Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
> it's unlikely Apple could make an x86_64 chip Why is it unlikely that Apple would make a x86 chip? Because of IP/licensing, or for technical reasons?
IP/licensing.
And cost. Making something you can license to others and/or sell to 250000 users each year has a completely different cost compared to something you use only on your 20000 machines (source: [1]).
Macs are already overpriced, I don't know how much Apple could sustain an in-house production of proprietary chips without hitting their users; they're probably going to ARM.
[1]: https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS43495918
Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's also very unlikely to happen on such a fast timetable the article (thin as it is) claims a multi-step transition. Apple almost certainly has a version of Mac OS that can run on their iPad hardware - the transition path that makes the most sense to me is a 12" MacBook that runs essentially the same internal hardware as an iPad pro, and a MacOS that can run iOS apps. There would be a great consumer market for a…
I’m still very skeptical of the “Mac that can run iOS apps” concept. Tim Cook has been pretty unambiguous in his statements about Mac vs iPad. https://www.macrumors.com/2015/11/16/tim-cook-no-converged-m... >We feel strongly that customers are not really looking for a converged Mac and iPad, because what that would wind up doing, or what we’re worried would happen, is that neither experience would be as good as the c…
They may never release it but no doubt they have it. There are iMacs in Cupertino running macOS on ARM and there are iPads running macOS. During the PPC transition it was pretty obvious that Apple had been building OS X to work on Intel for a while secretly.