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Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

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Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#41
post #7

I think this was inevitable given the insane YoY performance increase we've seen from A-series chips. Anyone want to chime in on why Intel can't get more than 5% YoY while Apple has been getting 30-40%?

Intel painted itself into a technological corner, where they have to pursue yields with larger die sizes than AMD. Or, looking at it from the other side, AMD won by steering themselves a course where they could avoid the trap of ever larger die sizes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctgAzn5Wx8o

If Apple can come up with something like Infinity Fabric, then they could steer the same course.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#42

Based on this article, it doesn't sound like Bloomberg has enough information to distinguish between Apple being committed to a transition, or Apple developing chips to improve their negotiating position with Intel. It's also very unlikely to happen on such a fast timetable; given the IP situation, it's unlikely Apple could make an x86_64 chip, and any move away from x86_64 is going to require significant work by thi…

The PPC -> Intel transition also happened, and yes devs had to do work to make it happen, but it doesn't mean it is unheard of or impossible.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#43

Great, we can go back to the macrumors nonsense about how this PPC is "just as fast" as the x86 days. With their focus on iOS vs MacOS, this doesn't surprise me. MacOS will simply die once they port their tools to iOS. Terrible choice IMO.

Apple was always their own world, their "openess" came from almost closing doors around 1994 and with NeXTSTEP they played the same game as NeXT did, pretending to be open to get UNIX devs into the platform.

Now that they have the upper hand, they are free to go back to their old ways without much considerations about opennesses.

With the PC sales declining and most OEMs following back to the old ways of integrated computers, before of PC components revolution, I guess most regular users will use follow along.

If the macOS/iOS developers still can get their share of the cake, most things will hardly change, although they might loose those that only use macOS as a pretty UNIX.

The question is how relevant are those sales currently.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#45
> "A decision to go with ARM technology in computers might lend it credibility where it has failed to gain a foothold so far."

> "Apple is working on a new software platform, internally dubbed Marzipan, for release as early as this year that would allow users to run iPhone and iPad apps on Macs"

Two things here:

1) I'm OK with breaking the Intel near-monopoly on x86. I'm not OK with moving to a walled garden where Apple forces you to publish apps through their App Store with a paid dev account, etc. just for the privilege of users on their platform. ARM doesn't necessarily mean this, but it is a different CPU arch. When Apple transitioned to Intel/x86 from PowerPC, Intel processors were performant enough compared to PowerPC processors to provide a pleasant emulated PowerPC environment for applications build for PowerPC. I don't think that a switch to ARM would provide this benefit, and afaik Intel's mobile offerings aren't that far off from ARM efficiency. So what's the benefit? Just vertical integration, I guess? Escaping Intel's backdoors and high prices?

2) iOS apps on OS X. Why? Does anybody want this? The way I see it, web apps are perfectly adequate for the desktop environment when it comes to stuff like checking my bank account or browsing Hacker News. I don't want to deal with a desktop app to do any of the stuff I can currently do via a browser. Is there actually a use case?

3) Given the hellscape of bugs currently present in iOS/macOS, does anybody have faith that Apple is going to be able to navigate a rewrite of macOS on this scale? It sounds like the sort of thing that requires a lot of talent and a lot of focus. Apple has the capital for this, but not the environment, imo.

Seems to me like this could be the nail in the coffin for Macbooks that's been pending since the merger of the macOS/iOS teams and the introduction of the controversial TouchBar/USB-C Pro.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#46
post #24

Apple does have a good record of moving their OS and software from different architectures. 68XXX to PPC to Intel was not a horrible experience. Having gone through three transitions I don't remember a lot of pain - but maybe I am repressing it!

It is fairly common for newer versions of OS X to break software that worked on previous versions. If you try to use Photoshop 6 on a modern version of OS X it isn't going to work. I think this makes the chip transition less painful because no one really expects their old software to work anyway.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#47

Based on this article, it doesn't sound like Bloomberg has enough information to distinguish between Apple being committed to a transition, or Apple developing chips to improve their negotiating position with Intel. It's also very unlikely to happen on such a fast timetable; given the IP situation, it's unlikely Apple could make an x86_64 chip, and any move away from x86_64 is going to require significant work by thi…

If apple uses its own chips, I would assume that they would be aarch64 and not x86_64. Also, Microsoft has some magics for executing x86_64 binaries on aarch64 with good performance, so Apple may have a similar technology. We could end up with another situation similar to the Power->x86 transition that happened back in 2006.

Or it could be nothing. This is a pretty thin article.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#48

Based on this article, it doesn't sound like Bloomberg has enough information to distinguish between Apple being committed to a transition, or Apple developing chips to improve their negotiating position with Intel. It's also very unlikely to happen on such a fast timetable; given the IP situation, it's unlikely Apple could make an x86_64 chip, and any move away from x86_64 is going to require significant work by thi…

I wonder if this is more about coprocessors and other chips than the main CPU.

I know the iPad Pros certainly outperform many cheaper Intel chips while using lower power.

But I doubt they would want to split the line into half ARM half Intel, or move the Mac Pro to ARM.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#49
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's unlikely Apple could make an x86_64 chip Why is it unlikely that Apple would make a x86 chip? Because of IP/licensing, or for technical reasons?

IP/licensing.

I would argue technical reasons too. x86_64 is a huge and complicated beast.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#50
post #6

My questions: ARM? Walled garden of an app ecosystem? Command line? There has been convergence between iOS and MacOS for a while now.

I see the question marks but I'm not entirely sure what your questions actually are

I think I see the questions, but I don't think we can answer them. Will Apple use this as an opportunity to merge MacOS and iOS? What will that mean for developing and distributing software?
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