Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion • Hacker News Board

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#81

Post by berberous » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 4:16 PM UTC

TFortunato wrote: post #80

LyndsySimon wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have all sorts of metals, liquids, flavoring compounds, wicks, etc Metal content is negligible unless you dry hit. No one likes that so it's pretty much a self-limiting problem. Flavoring compounds, though... there are liquids out there that contain diacetyl (a "buttery" flavoring). It's relatively common in foods, but is known specifically to cause issues when heated and inhaled. ETA: I just saw that this is m…

Sorry to be "that guy", but could you explain what you mean by metal content being negligible unless you dry hit? I assumed when people were talking about metal content, they were referring to metal vapors from the heating elements or something, but I'll admit that I don't know enough about this, or what a dry hit is vs. normal use, or how we know when metal vapors or whatever are/aren't a concern. (I feel so old rig…

I don't know enough about how these things work to verify his comment that metal is only a concern if you dry hit, but a dry hit just means it ran out of juice and you didn't notice, so you accidentally inhale a disgusting taste of burnt metal/fabric, rather than vaporized liquid. Normally though, you have liquid sitting in a tank touching metal, glass and/or plastic. Maybe glass and good metals don't leach into the liquid, but there are tons of cheaply made devices out there, and I wouldn't bet my health without seeing better studies that some sort of metallic or plastic compounds couldn't leach into the liquid, to then be vaporized and inhaled.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#82

Post by wonderflpancake » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 4:30 PM UTC

Semi-related, maybe there are some nicotine experts here that can help me:

I smoked ~4 years light/social post high school. Dipped Copenhagen Pouches for ~10 years. I've tried to quite with some success with the longest streak being 2 years. It is incredibly hard and all in the mind.

I found ZYN pouches last year and they have replaced my needs. It "... is a tobacco leaf-free nicotine product. The nicotine salt used in ZYN is derived from tobacco leaves, but once the salt is extracted, no part of the leaf remains." The rest of it is says its food-grade.

Obviously the best would be not to use anything. But would anyone happen to know if this is still leaving a lot of risk exposure? My thought is its probably about as safe as I'll ever find, and really just giving me the nicotine I've become used to without the bad stuff, as nicotine itself is not what causes problems. But if anyone has more informed opinions that would be helpful.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#83

Post by bob1029 » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 4:35 PM UTC

I think we have a bigger problem with stimulant abuse in general. The perception of caffeine and nicotine (and god forbid the various amphetamines) as "safe" is incredibly deceptive. I have seen the differences in myself in terms of productivity, sleep quality, etc. which cannot be fully-quantified on some medical study or quarterly performance reviews. We have an entire generation of young people entering the workforce who cannot go 30 minutes without taking a vape break outside. Sure, this doesn't directly impact the individual's health or immediate perceptions of work effort, but over time the impact is gradually discovered. The individual cannot sit still in a chair and focus on a complex/deep-dive topic long enough to reach an actionable conclusion. The other extreme is the individual is hyper-focused on one task (usually the amphetamine users) to the extent that they begin to ignore all sense of context and lose focus on the bigger picture. For most employment, this is usually not a concern, but for those who have to dive incredibly deep into complexity on a daily basis (engineers, programmers, architects, etc.), I feel it can be the difference between getting something done in 4 hours and getting it done in 4 weeks. This perception is also something incredibly hard to quantify, but I have witnessed several anecdotal examples (some in myself) which I am confident can be attributed to excessive use of stimulants.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#84

Post by Crespyl » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 4:35 PM UTC

truculation wrote: post #59

ebbv wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The success rate of never smoking/vaping in the first place is 100%. The success rate of quitting is really up to the individual, much like weight loss or other self improvement stuff. But even if it's hard it's the thing you should do. I'm really not sure what you're arguing. "Quitting is hard and a lot of people fail so .. don't quit." That's some lame mentality right there.

>"Quitting is hard and a lot of people fail so .. don't quit." No, I asked: what should vaping be replaced with?

Gum seems to be fairly traditional.

Obviously the goal is "not inhaling things that aren't air".

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#85

Post by qwerty456127 » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 4:59 PM UTC

Schools are for educating, not for prohibiting or judging. If you believe vaping is bad for kids or whoever - educate them about why do you think so and let them decide for themselves.

When I was a schoolboy everybody believed kids that smoke don't grow as they get older, nobody wanted to become a gnome :-)

If there is a real health threat we are to be able to explain it to the children, if there isn't - we probably should just let the do what they want.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#86

Post by Zak » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 5:06 PM UTC

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #78

Reading these comments its obvious that Vaping is forcing us to confront an uncomfortable truth. Vaping might not be that much healthier for the consumer , but its widely popular because its so much nicer for the non smoker . How much of the campaign to stop smoking was out of concern for the health of future generations? And how much of it was out of the annoyance of second hand smoke? Even if Vaping proves to be eq…

I'm OK with that. I believe people have a fundamental right to make their own decisions about what to put in their bodies, but not to expose others to harmful or unpleasant substances.

I'd like there to be more information on the health effects of vaping so that people can make better-informed decisions, but I doubt it would have a big impact. The health effects of smoking have been well-known for decades, but I think we didn't see significant declines until it became less socially acceptable.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#87

Post by DanBC » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 5:26 PM UTC

truculation wrote: post #59

ebbv wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The success rate of never smoking/vaping in the first place is 100%. The success rate of quitting is really up to the individual, much like weight loss or other self improvement stuff. But even if it's hard it's the thing you should do. I'm really not sure what you're arguing. "Quitting is hard and a lot of people fail so .. don't quit." That's some lame mentality right there.

>"Quitting is hard and a lot of people fail so .. don't quit." No, I asked: what should vaping be replaced with?

If children are smoking, and they're cutting down using vaping, then you don't replace it, or you replace it with another smoking cessation method.

If they're not smoking you don't want them to start vaping.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#88

Post by draw_down » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 5:39 PM UTC

neaden wrote: post #2

I think it is very important for everyone to keep in mind that vaping is probably safer than smoking. But it might not be, we don't know for sure. And it is certainly worse than not consuming any tobacco product. So trying to encourage active smokers to switch to vaping is probably beneficial, but increasing overall tobacco consumption rates is bad.

I don't think tobacco is involved with vaping, so I don't see why it would contribute to overall tobacco consumption rates. Unless there is some proven effect that people who vape smoke more or dip more, which I suppose could be the case.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#89

Post by truculation » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 5:40 PM UTC

Crespyl wrote: post #84

truculation wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Quitting is hard and a lot of people fail so .. don't quit." No, I asked: what should vaping be replaced with?

Gum seems to be fairly traditional. Obviously the goal is "not inhaling things that aren't air".

>Gum seems to be fairly traditional

Do you mean nicotine gum? Isn't that bad for your gums? Or do you mean plain chewing gum?

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#90

Post by dsfyu404ed » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 5:42 PM UTC

yters wrote: post #16

_m8fo wrote: post #3

Who does this stuff even benefit? The seemingly arbitrary lines drawn between marijuana, alcohol, tobacco and other "drugs" is so weird. So much moral righteousness.

What about sugar and fats? Probably cause just as many health problems as smoking. The bigger problem is behavior. Focusing on particular substances is mostly a scapegoat for our lack of self control.

It's hard to learn self control when you're being micromanaged.