I don't know what's the matter with me, but I love this.
Nothing is wrong with you, it was enjoyable. Very very different. I found myself bobbing alone with the maracas enjoying the organs as they built up.
Organ Grinding: When the Audience Revolted at Carnegie Hall
21–30 of 63 posts
Re: Organ Grinding: When the Audience Revolted at Carnegie Hall
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would argue you are woefully wrong. Much great music is made of sounds only fleetingly able to be considered 'intentional'. A noise that conveys a feeling, no matter that feeling, is music. Sure, I don't sit around jamming to John Cage, but I similarly feel vaugely ambivilant about much pop music. Is it any different? Much good hiphop is atonal, much jazz does not repeat, and much popular techno has but a faint hin…
It’s certainly true you can find musical qualities in almost any noise, but “music” by definition is a purposeful structure or arrangement of sounds to convey an idea or emotion. That is not to say that all music must follow some prescribed form or another, but the distinction between sound and music is, at a minimum, structure and intent. And it is also possible to intentionally structure some sounds in a way as to…
> And it is also possible to intentionally structure some sounds in a way as to be not music, or unmusic, which is the impression I get listening to Four Organs.
This is artwork, and your impression is largely irrelevant.
This sentiment that it's too simple or too unintentional reminds me of how I felt when I was 12 and laid eyes upon Clyfford Still's 1951-52 at the Chicago Art Institute. It didn't seem like art to me at the time, but now I see that it is- and that I don't get to define what art is or isn't.
Re: Organ Grinding: When the Audience Revolted at Carnegie Hall
#23I am not a huge fan of so-called minimalist music, though among its prominent composers, Mr. Reich is the one who appeals to me most, and I think his skills have developed considerably since this early work. The boorish, self-centered behavior of certain audience members would have made it very difficult to appreciate anything of the work at its premiere. Unfortunately, this is increasingly so even for public perform…
Story time: I went to a park performance of "Drumming" (which for those who don't know the piece contains lots of subtle changes) here there was a drunk man standing in front yelling "YEEEEAAAH! WOOOOHOOO!" every time he noticed a change.
Re: Organ Grinding: When the Audience Revolted at Carnegie Hall
#24It’s a long essay, but maybe the YouTube link should appear at the top. Because when you click play and try to listen, you might find yourself feeling quite like they did back in Carnegie Hall. My vote? Noise, not music.
Na, definitely music. It's based in sound. It's meant for you to listen to, and appreciate like other music.
You could just say it's bad music. As in you don't like it.
Re: Organ Grinding: When the Audience Revolted at Carnegie Hall
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would argue you are woefully wrong. Much great music is made of sounds only fleetingly able to be considered 'intentional'. A noise that conveys a feeling, no matter that feeling, is music. Sure, I don't sit around jamming to John Cage, but I similarly feel vaugely ambivilant about much pop music. Is it any different? Much good hiphop is atonal, much jazz does not repeat, and much popular techno has but a faint hin…
It’s certainly true you can find musical qualities in almost any noise, but “music” by definition is a purposeful structure or arrangement of sounds to convey an idea or emotion. That is not to say that all music must follow some prescribed form or another, but the distinction between sound and music is, at a minimum, structure and intent. And it is also possible to intentionally structure some sounds in a way as to…
>And it is also possible to intentionally structure some sounds in a way as to be not music, or unmusic
No it isn't.
Re: Organ Grinding: When the Audience Revolted at Carnegie Hall
#26I have only limited formal music education, but I am an ardent amateur performer and listener. But I agree with the person who ran down the aisle at the 1970 performance, yelling "Stop! I will confess!" Western music requires rhythm, melody, harmony. (though rhythm may stand nearly on its own.) Beauty can be subjective to a degree (some non-Western cultures do not find dissonant notes to be objectionable in an otherw…
As a semi-professional musician, that definition of art as "what I can't do" is really a rough thing to hear.
Like, there are plenty of musical pieces I can play; that doesn't make them not art.
I enjoy drawing though I am not great at it; that doesn't make my drawing not art... that just makes my drawings mediocre art.
So, at the very least, I don't think that's a sustainable definition of art.
For what it's worth, if you can accept that argument, then you might want to go a step further and question what does qualify as "Great art", and I feel like it's not just way out in left field to say that in addition to execution, the difference is in how it treats ideas.
Hypothesizing that people are responding to formal ideas would give at least an account that avoids a redunctionist and cynical "the emperor has no clothes" account of why people who seem to know a whole lot about their respective art forms like things like free jazz, abstract paintings, and strange performance art.
Re: Organ Grinding: When the Audience Revolted at Carnegie Hall
#27I am not a huge fan of so-called minimalist music, though among its prominent composers, Mr. Reich is the one who appeals to me most, and I think his skills have developed considerably since this early work. The boorish, self-centered behavior of certain audience members would have made it very difficult to appreciate anything of the work at its premiere. Unfortunately, this is increasingly so even for public perform…
First time I've heard of him, but I just checked out Steve Reich: Pulse/Quartet on spotify and it was very nice. good background music for working.
Re: Organ Grinding: When the Audience Revolted at Carnegie Hall
#28I attended a performance of Four Organs in April 2017. There was an incredible amount of tension in the room because the performers looked like they were at their limit of being able to successfully pull off the performance. They did succeed, and the audience roared with applause and cheers.
Re: Organ Grinding: When the Audience Revolted at Carnegie Hall
#29I have only limited formal music education, but I am an ardent amateur performer and listener. But I agree with the person who ran down the aisle at the 1970 performance, yelling "Stop! I will confess!" Western music requires rhythm, melody, harmony. (though rhythm may stand nearly on its own.) Beauty can be subjective to a degree (some non-Western cultures do not find dissonant notes to be objectionable in an otherw…
As a semi-professional musician, that definition of art as "what I can't do" is really a rough thing to hear. Like, there are plenty of musical pieces I can play; that doesn't make them not art. I enjoy drawing though I am not great at it; that doesn't make my drawing not art... that just makes my drawings mediocre art. So, at the very least, I don't think that's a sustainable definition of art. For what it's worth,…
> As a semi-professional musician, that definition of art as "what I can't do" is really a rough thing to hear.
I think you've misunderstood, on two fronts. First, the definition given was "what Rush Limbaugh can't do." More generally, it's what laypeople, those untrained in art, can't do. If you're a "semi-professional musician," then your ability to perform a work of music is a non-factor. Second, I read Limbaugh as focused on creation rather than performance. Sure, you can play those pieces. But could you have composed them, or pieces of similar quality, from scratch? Could Limbaugh have?
Re: Organ Grinding: When the Audience Revolted at Carnegie Hall
#30I have only limited formal music education, but I am an ardent amateur performer and listener. But I agree with the person who ran down the aisle at the 1970 performance, yelling "Stop! I will confess!" Western music requires rhythm, melody, harmony. (though rhythm may stand nearly on its own.) Beauty can be subjective to a degree (some non-Western cultures do not find dissonant notes to be objectionable in an otherw…
As a semi-professional musician, that definition of art as "what I can't do" is really a rough thing to hear. Like, there are plenty of musical pieces I can play; that doesn't make them not art. I enjoy drawing though I am not great at it; that doesn't make my drawing not art... that just makes my drawings mediocre art. So, at the very least, I don't think that's a sustainable definition of art. For what it's worth,…
But you're making the argument. You have skills and training and surely thousands of hours of practice, of course you can play plenty of pieces.
Limbaugh's point was that he is utterly without art and music talent/training yet can re-create some of these highly praised "works of art." Of course it was hyperbolic, and it's not a rock-solid scientific definition of art -- perhaps no such thing can ever exist -- but it's a great practical working definition. Perhaps it would be better stated "if everyone can do it, it's not art."
Luciano Pavarotti once called singing "shouting, but on pitch." I think he was understating his gift.