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The End of Windows

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Re: The End of Windows

#151

Post by mschuster91 »

cptskippy wrote: post #132
djsumdog wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I wish Microsoft would focus on Windows 11 and not think of Win10 as the last Windows, thereby flooding it with adware non-sense. There are still a lot of tech heads and gamers that depend on Windows and will continue to buy into the platform. I even know hard core Linux devs who've switched back to Win10 and just work off of the new Linux Subsystem and an X11 server. With Android being a clusterfuck of vend…

I agree with what you're saying and I think they need to keep Windows 10 around at least for a little while longer. Everyone hates when Microsoft changes something core and foundational about Windows and thus there has been little change in certain areas of the OS for the last two decades. That build up of cruft has become untenable and Microsoft attempted to address major pain points like the Control Panel with Wind…

> With each release of Windows 10 they introduce a bunch of new crappy apps that are completely forgettable AND they improve a core feature silently.

And with every shift towards ads or trying to force a mobile-first UI on a desktop/laptop, they alienate users off of it. I switched to OS X as soon as I saw the writing on the wall with Win8 (and Wine on OS X got stable enough to play GTA San Andreas, tbh).

Also, I wonder if it would be possible to get Windows 7 userland to run on a Win10 (and with it, WSL) kernel. Now that's something I'd switch back to Windows for.

Re: The End of Windows

#152

Post by ekianjo »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #104
ekianjo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing to do with Linux, rather with the publishers who decide not to support Linux or any particular distro at least.

Yeah sure, let's not wonder why maybe developers don't want to develop for your platform or anything.

Nothing to wonder, it's easy to understand why they prefer to invest in 90% of the market, but they shoot themselves in the foot by investing in non-free platforms at the end of the day.

Re: The End of Windows

#153

Post by ataturk »

laumars wrote: post #37
eric_b wrote: post #6

I'll be interested to see how this bifurcation of the Windows team plays out. Windows 10 has been a mixed bag - some nice new features but also a lot of half baked buggy stuff. The evergreen nature of Windows 10 feels like the right move, but I'm worried they're going to let the OS stagnate. There's already a lot of low hanging fruit they could clean up with an update, but haven't. I'm not a huge fan of using my tabl…

> There's already a lot of low hanging fruit they could clean up with an update, but haven't. In all honesty that's been my impression of Windows since its inception. The only time I can recall ever feeling like Windows was deserved market leader was with Windows 2000: Linux wasn't mature on the desktop, OS X wasn't yet released or literally only just released and OS 9 was god awful (worse than the Win 95 in my opini…

I bought a pretty high-end MSI gaming laptop to use for development which came with Windows 10 Home. It's a total POS. I can't even begin to describe how disappointed I am with it. I mostly use Macs, and have bounced between the two OSes for years at different jobs. Windows 7 was the last good Windows and I really tried hard to make 10 be good for me, but it just isn't. It's garbage. I'm thinking of putting Ubuntu on this expensive laptop and just eating the problems and not being able to get anything out of the GPU it has. It sucks.

By the way, today's latest MacBook Pros aren't that great, either. The 2015 MB Pro was the best developer laptop ever made.

Re: The End of Windows

#154

Post by ams6110 »

nulagrithom wrote: post #124
ckaygusu wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> macOS isn't business-level stable. Can you elaborate this assertion? As far as stability goes, macs are top notch. I'd say in the business context Windows machines are prevalent because of successful MS strategies (in terms of marketing, not ethics) in 1995-2005 era, and it kind of stuck around.

The enterprise tooling for macOS is woefully insufficient. Windows has provisions for performing all sorts of tasks across a fleet of desktops. I can automate deployment of a Windows desktop to the point where all you have to do is boot it up and join it to the domain (which makes it easier to hire someone to do it as well). What's more is that these settings will work across updates. I've gotten really sick of the s…

Agreed. To get anything close to this with Apple you need to go to third party tools such as Jamf.

Re: The End of Windows

#155

Post by walterbell »

shmerl wrote: post #136
walterbell wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Microsoft of the 1990s and the “Microsoft” of today are very different. The modern version is trying to copy closed ecosystems, instead of building on historical strengths in stable APIs, backward compatibility, diverse hardware and ISV licensing models.

Different, but only partially. In many ways they still cling to their bad habits like lock-in and standards poisoning. Some good exceptions exists (HTML5 and AV1), but many things are as bad as they were for a long time (Outlook, DirectX and etc.).

Azure (or is it Office 365) seems to be growing rapidly.

Docker/containers and Linux (WSL) have modern ecosystems that intersect with Azure. There’s also a Microsoft open server hardware design for Open Compute.

What are some modern/emerging standards where Microsoft is actively involved?

Re: The End of Windows

#156

Post by blinkingled »

It isn't really the end of Windows - it's the end of Windows' dominance of Microsoft mindshare.

Windows 10 was the giant step in that direction - an always updating, maintenance mode, single OS that MS will need to support. Arguably until Win 7 dies out they won't be entirely there but once they are, maintaining Windows is a much simpler affair than yesteryears.

None of this means Windows itself is dying - it only means the OS has matured enough for the needs of present and any future needs will be addressed as and when they arise - instead of inventing the future they will abide with it on their own schedule.

This allows Microsoft to focus on things that truly matter for the future without killing Windows or spending a lot of resources on advancing/supporting it. It's not hard to imagine Windows stays a very dominant client OS for a long time to come - even if the overall PC market share continues to decline, because none of the alternatives are there and nobody is going to invest the resources to get them there.

I will also add that Satya's success lies in speeding up this strategy that started late under Ballmer and also in executing so well on it. Considering the scale of what MS is doing - Office ports to iOS, Android, Windows 10 releases, Azure, ton of other Enterprise stuff (Exchange, O365, Development tools, cross platform stuff like .NET Core, VS Code etc) - the change of course and the success they are having with it all - you can't argue it's not a phenomenal achievement.

Re: The End of Windows

#157

Post by krylon »

Someone1234 wrote: post #50
bigmanwalter wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux on desktop is pretty amazing. Haven't looked back in 3 years.

If I still have to open the terminal and edit text files in /etc for essential things like sound, WiFi, accelerated graphics, and so on then it hasn't really evolved in the right ways. Linux on the desktop has always been a niche experience for a niche audience. ChromeOS and Android (both based on Linux) are mainstream desktop experiences, as are MacOS, iOS, and Windows.

Well, you can do that if you want to, but on the more desktop-friendly distros, I have not had to edit a configuration file in years.

Re: The End of Windows

#158

Post by shmerl »

walterbell wrote: post #155
shmerl wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different, but only partially. In many ways they still cling to their bad habits like lock-in and standards poisoning. Some good exceptions exists (HTML5 and AV1), but many things are as bad as they were for a long time (Outlook, DirectX and etc.).

Azure (or is it Office 365) seems to be growing rapidly. Docker/containers and Linux (WSL) have modern ecosystems that intersect with Azure. There’s also a Microsoft open server hardware design for Open Compute. What are some modern/emerging standards where Microsoft is actively involved?

Rather not involved. MS is notably lacking participation in Vulkan for GPU graphics and compute, because they are pushing their lock-in alternative.

For other lock-in examples, check who holds patents (and charges for them) on exFAT and its usage on common Flash storage like SD cards.

Re: The End of Windows

#159

Post by pjmlp »

ekianjo wrote: post #65
maxxxxx wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of Dev work unfortunately Linux is not that much fun. If you need to do accounting, graphics or other work there are options on Linux but they are usually way behind what Mac or Windows are offering.

This has nothing to do with Linux, rather with the publishers who decide not to support Linux or any particular distro at least.

Why bother to try to sell desktop software to users that want everything for free, and with source code available?

Usually the only ones willing to pay for Linux software are enterprise shops.

Re: The End of Windows

#160

Post by maxxxxx »

ekianjo wrote: post #152
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah sure, let's not wonder why maybe developers don't want to develop for your platform or anything.

Nothing to wonder, it's easy to understand why they prefer to invest in 90% of the market, but they shoot themselves in the foot by investing in non-free platforms at the end of the day.

"they shoot themselves in the foot by investing in non-free platforms at the end of the day."

When is that end of the day? Over the last decades it would have been extremely difficult making money with Linux dekstop software. Windows and Mac were the only viable options to run a business.

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