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The End of Windows

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Re: The End of Windows

#91

Post by jacquesm »

isostatic wrote: post #84
pjmlp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple didn't cease to be a force at any stage. They maintained a strong base in home use and content creation only losing the enterprise. They almost went bankrupt around 1994. If it wasn't for Microsoft money and the merge with NeXT bringing Jobs back, they would have been gone. Up to iPod's success Apple was meaningless pretty much everywhere outside US.

It's amazing how much they nearly lost it all. In the late 80s early 90s apple was a fairly common sight in education, 10 years later it was windows everywhere outside of degree level STEM (where it was *nix of some sort)

Given the context of this thread note the irony that Microsoft actually bailed out Apple to polish up their image for anti-trust reasons.

https://www.wired.com/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

Re: The End of Windows

#92

Post by nimbius »

Just because Microsoft is desparate to unshackle themselves from a loss-leader doesnt mean its about to happen anytime soon, albeit an announcement like this will certainly goose the stock. The only person angrier about missing the app-store cloud-based moneytrain is likely Larry Ellison whos already furiously trying to saw off the Oracle Database boat anchor.

You're going to need to convince your channel partners this is a thing that has to happen, and you're going to expect a revolt because so many tertiary industries are contingent upon Windows and its licenses. The tear-down for everything from the Windows app-store to the ballmer-era brick and mortar "windows store" is going to be significant. There are also laboratories, power plants, hospitals, and prisons that all rely heavily on Windows, so expect to be on the hook from state level government for quite a while...the "end" of windows also confirms the wastefully squandered effort to get Germany to obsolete its massive and very functional Linux deployment.

You'll also need to have a substantive marketshare in, say, cloud in order to start deprecating Windows. Outside of Redmonds own inflated reporting, Azure isnt exactly a competitor. Most devs would rather walk off a cliff than learn a new API --one that only Microsoft uses-- for cloud that is not EC2 compatible in any way. Conversely there are more than 40 providers of cloud services that all managed an EC2 api for objects.

Re: The End of Windows

#93

Post by walterbell »

shmerl wrote: post #9
walterbell wrote: post #4

Dear Microsoft, If you’re not using the PC, can we have it back? — General Purpose Computing

> If you’re not using the PC, can we have it back? Sure, install Linux and feel free.

UEFI history: https://www.linux.com/learn/how-install-linux-windows-machin...

Re: The End of Windows

#94

Post by cornholio »

I would love for Microsoft to launch it's own Android-compatible ecosystem, starting from the open source base of Android and building alternatives to Google's proprietary technology (location & mapping, email, browsing, app store etc.). They are one of the few companies who have the capacity to do that and already have products in place to cover 80% of what is required.

While I'm not exactly a fan of Microsoft, there is nothing I dread more than a closed platform controlled by a single company, and Google is moving more and more aggressively in that direction. There is now a whole industry dedicated to installing hacked Google products on devices Google does not approve of.

Re: The End of Windows

#95

Post by api »

bigmanwalter wrote: post #14
eric_b wrote: post #6

I'll be interested to see how this bifurcation of the Windows team plays out. Windows 10 has been a mixed bag - some nice new features but also a lot of half baked buggy stuff. The evergreen nature of Windows 10 feels like the right move, but I'm worried they're going to let the OS stagnate. There's already a lot of low hanging fruit they could clean up with an update, but haven't. I'm not a huge fan of using my tabl…

Linux on desktop is pretty amazing. Haven't looked back in 3 years.

I used it for a while a few years ago at work. My impression was that 90-95% of it works well but there remains this persistent and very stubborn 5% load of edge case bugs.

The problem is that when you hit one of these issues it's infuriating and often costs a lot of time. It also has a way of happening when you really don't want it to, since when you're traveling or in a hurry you're more likely to be doing "different" things with your machine and thus are more likely to hit a problem. Linux desktops are like a car that runs great for your daily commute but blows up on road trips.

IMHO the reason for this is that the remaining 5-10% of the polish that's required to reach excellence in software often takes >50% of the time and is by far the least fun part of programming. As a result people generally have to be paid to do it. Free software rarely does unless it's heavily sponsored or incubated in-house by someone with resources.

This is why I still like Mac. I think Apple as a company is a little past its prime but Mac still offers by far the most reliable and consistently productive desktop experience. Windows has improved but they've decided to encrust it with advertising. Ads in a paid app or OS are a total deal breaker. Windows also still has more edge case issues than Mac, mostly due to driver issues.

Re: The End of Windows

#96

Post by jacquesm »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #82
jacquesm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General Purpose Computing using PC's is a thing because of Microsoft (and IBM). Without those two there would have never been a PC in the first place. The forces against general purpose computing are to be found on 1 infinite loop and 1600 Amphitheatre parkway.

> Without those two there would have never been a PC in the first place. Can you clarify that statement? My memory of computing history include other types of personal computers during and around that time.

Yes, but the market was super fragmented with each and every platform trying to lock in their customers as much as possible. The PC changed all that by virtue of the clones, which offered compatible systems and components from a large variety of vendors. Compaq arguably was the biggest force in establishing the clone market and even though as a brand they are gone today (though some of their legacy lives on in HP's server line) the computing world would not look even close to the same without the effort of those clone manufacturers.

The economies of scale engendered by the standardization of the PC platform really made things move.

Re: The End of Windows

#97

Post by seanmcdirmid »

jmuguy wrote: post #75
ynniv wrote: post #48

This seems like a ridiculous strategy. Who would abandon an ecosystem that they own over 80% of? If they're spending too much money on it, stop adding features and harden what they already have. It's increasingly clear that macOS isn't business-level stable, and Linux isn't polished... No one has an Android device on their desk at work. Maybe if they stopped trying to take over the world they would realize that they…

They're not abandoning Windows or the ecosystem. This is just the end of it as the tip of the spear/driving force for MS strategy. Nadella is (rightly, imo) focusing more on o365 and Azure. One of the points the article makes is that Ballmer's MS would do things like not release Office for iOS because that would potentially eat into Windows marketshare. That no longer will happen. MS sees its more important to get o3…

Not saying that you are wrong, but iOS office was in development long before Ballmer left, so never isn’t as true as “not soon enough.”

Re: The End of Windows

#98

Post by ynniv »

jmuguy wrote: post #75
ynniv wrote: post #48

This seems like a ridiculous strategy. Who would abandon an ecosystem that they own over 80% of? If they're spending too much money on it, stop adding features and harden what they already have. It's increasingly clear that macOS isn't business-level stable, and Linux isn't polished... No one has an Android device on their desk at work. Maybe if they stopped trying to take over the world they would realize that they…

They're not abandoning Windows or the ecosystem. This is just the end of it as the tip of the spear/driving force for MS strategy. Nadella is (rightly, imo) focusing more on o365 and Azure. One of the points the article makes is that Ballmer's MS would do things like not release Office for iOS because that would potentially eat into Windows marketshare. That no longer will happen. MS sees its more important to get o3…

I agree that getting Office to run on Android and iOS is a bright future, but that doesn't mean you put Windows in the corner with "some other stuff". Maybe there are too many people on it and they've gotten too comfortable? Spin it out into a company with half the staff and let it soak up its own sun.

Re: The End of Windows

#99

Post by pjc50 »

pjmlp wrote: post #15
amyjess wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see iPads everywhere at smaller restaurants. Especially in food courts. I've even seen a few Android tablets (including at one upscale food hall in Plano, TX). Not just restaurants, too; independent stores are picking up tablets at a huge rate. If a store has opened in the last three years or so, they're probably using a tablet as a cash register. Tablets are rapidly taking over the market for cash registers.

Many of those tablets are actually running W10.

There's a lot of these about. The license cost reduction for "tiny device" (small screen, <=32GB flash, <=2Gb RAM) has caused them to proliferate. In some ways they're the real replacement for WinCE.

Re: The End of Windows

#100

Post by shmerl »

walterbell wrote: post #93
shmerl wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you’re not using the PC, can we have it back? Sure, install Linux and feel free.

UEFI history: https://www.linux.com/learn/how-install-linux-windows-machin...

Luckily most motherboard makers allow disabling this, which makes installation quite easy.
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