Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies • Hacker News Board

Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

#131

Post by 220V_USKettle » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 7:33 AM UTC

dx034 wrote: post #107

TylerE wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The materials probably aren't quite that cheap, and due to the bulk (a queen size mattress weights about 50-70lbs) there is natural price floor just of shipping expenses.

Shipping that from China to the US or Europe isn't expensive. From the port to the end customer is the most expensive part but even that won't be significant. Even washing machines (which are heavier and harder to transport) can be shipped for a relatively low price across long distances. I wouldn't expect shipping costs from China to the end customer to be more than $30 for any mattress.

These types of mattresses have a limited shelf-life in their 'compressed' state and can only be stored within a specific temperature range.

I say it is more akin to shipping produce than TVs. We don't get the majority of our veggies from a single farm for all of the US.

Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

#132

Post by rconti » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 7:34 AM UTC

wheels wrote: post #52

As an American that moved to Europe before I was old enough to ever buy an expensive mattress, what Americans spend on mattresses is always incredibly baffling. New, king sized (1.8 x 2.0 m), mattresses go for €200-1500 (about $250-1800) in Germany, with prices gravitating towards the lower end of the spectrum. Americans use much springier mattresses (box springs are unheard of here, and foam mattresses are standard)…

A few years ago we shopped for a mattress here in Silicon Valley. Size was California King which is, IIRC, 4" longer than a standard King, but 4" narrower. First mom-and-pop store we went to, prices were $599-$3000ish. Running a "no sales tax" promotion (they always are).

My wife and I spent an hour trying different beds and through all the firm and soft and plush and ultrafirm ultradeluxe ultraplush nonsense.

Talked to the salesman, and he pretty much said the only difference between the REALLY low end $599 ones, and the $799+ ones, was coil count. Once you hit 799+, he told us, it was all kinds of toppers and so on. But the coil count doesn't effect warranty or how often you should replace it.

My wife's favorite bed was the $599 simple firm one. That was my second favorite by a narrow margin; my favorite was way down her list.

Delivered to our house a day or two later; again, no sales tax, no need for a box spring because we had a platform bed.

It's still a REALLY REALLY industry, and I'm not saying Americans don't pay more than they should, but I'm not sure our price range is particularly out of whack with what you saw, and this is for coils, not foam.

At Ikea you can easily get a cheap foam mattress; we have one in our guest room. I've slept on it when I'm sick. It's fine. I don't prefer it, but if it's all I ever knew, or if I spent as much time on one as I've spent on coil mattresses, it might well be my favorite.

Yet, not many people here buy foam mattresses, or mattress from Ikea at all.

Perhaps the bias is just that Ikea = cheap, but some trendy internet-advertised foam brand with a new name and a fresh face must be some new high-tech amazing thing.

Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

#133

Post by mrep » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 7:39 AM UTC

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #18

Cheap memory foam toppers have effectively made the quality of the mattress irrelevant to me. I've been sleeping great on a compressed Ikea mattress with a foam topper. In fact the entire bed setup was boxed up and taken to my home in a car. I've spent the night at really nice guest rooms/hotels, and I don't prefer them over my setup. I would much rather re-buy my setup again every time I move, than spend a ton of mo…

Retail mattress shopping is insane. I went to nordstrom/macys to look at mattresses and the foam ones were retailing for like 3,000$ dollars. Checked out Amazon and found some for 1/10th the price and decided it was easily worth the gamble.

2 years later and I have no complaints with my 300$ Amazon foam mattress.

Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

#134

Post by afterburner » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 7:40 AM UTC

calvinbhai wrote: post #88

Surprising that an article about mattress in a box companies can be written without mentioning T&N. Tuft & Needle probably was the first one to come out with this concept, and probably is still the best priced one. I have two T&N queen mattresses for more than 4 yrs. Been very happy with these in terms of comfort and durability. Never going back to any of the 4S mattresses. No reason for me to try other mattress in a…

Looks like the same price as two or three others I've seen.

Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

#135

Post by joshvm » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 7:45 AM UTC

DennisP wrote: post #24

joshvm wrote: post #9

Somewhat ironic that the article comments about MemoryFoamTalk not disclosing comissions from Nectar and then provides an (undisclosed) affiliate link. I have a Leesa as it was the only mattress (at the time) which fit my bed properly. The fact that all these companies can offer 100-365 day trials does hint at how stupidly large the margins are.

How do you like your Leesa?

Pretty good, I've not had any real problems with it. I tried a Casper before and liked that too. I don't have a problem with the softness, it's actually harder than I expected.

Is it better than all the other companies? It's still very difficult to tell without trying them side by side. When I bought it there weren't that many offerings in the UK - I think it was only Leesa, Casper and Simba.

One concern is that there's no way of easily removing the cover, and all it'll take is one glass of wine to ruin it. So while it looks great in the photos, really you'll want to put some kind of protector on it.

I also tried one of Casper's pillows, which was great until it started bunching like crazy and is now useless. Don't waste your money on the expensive upsell 'accessories'.

Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

#136

Post by woodpanel » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 7:51 AM UTC

On a side note: Since their marketing is superb, it doesn't surprise me that even the article takes Casper's claim at face value - but it wasn't Casper who invented this business-model in 2014.

I don't know for other countries, but German startup Bett1 was started in 2004. It became famous in Germany for uncovering the "mattress mafia", a cartell formed by producers and retailers that ensured their ridiculous high earnings stayed in place, eventually leading to criminal investigations by the authorities.

Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

#137

Post by slavik81 » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 7:53 AM UTC

rconti wrote: post #129

pdonis wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can easily test TV brands by going to a store and looking at them. You can't really test different mattress brands in a store; yes, you can lie on them, but in my experience at least, that doesn't give a very good prediction of what sleeping on the mattress long term will be like. The result is a standard asymmetric information scenario: the seller knows much more than the customer about the actual quality of the…

To be fair, who can really tell the difference between TVs in the store? The source is crap, the lighting in the viewing area is crap, the settings are totally unknown.. and the reality is, they'll all look good once you get them home.

I think he's close, but it's more that there are objective criteria for TV quality. My guess is that there are enough people who will only buy TVs with good reviews that manufacturers don't want to muddy the waters on their top-tier models. Low-end TVs sometimes still have store-specific model numbers.

For a mattress, a review is less helpful. Firmness is probably the most noticeable feature of a mattress, and what's good or bad is mostly a matter of taste.

Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

#138

Post by rhizome » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 7:54 AM UTC

wonder_bread wrote: post #16

Seems like part of what this article is discussing is the emerging 'Shopify effect'. The barriers to entry for starting an online brand-based business have plummetted to the point where even people with little means financially and no means technically can still set up a business for a fraction of what it cost in the 20th century. I wouldn't be surprised if we're in the middle of a Cambrian explosion-esque period for…

Brands, sure, but it's a side effect of nobody actually making anything anymore. The manufacturer or distributor, of which there are certainly many fewer than mattress brands, could steal huge hunks of the entire market just by deciding to do so. I'm not sure all of these are positive developments.

I have to wonder if the low barrier to entry takes Hotelling's Law and explodes it into high gear. Like, how many actually-different mattress design patterns and materials are there anyway?

Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

#139

Post by closeparen » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 7:57 AM UTC

pdonis wrote: post #109

alister wrote: post #90

The journalist spoke to all these founders and to marketing people, but didn't ask a fairly obvious question: What makes the mattress market so much weirder than for other products? Let's compare mattresses to big-screen TVs, which are also $1000+, infrequently purchased, bulky items: - The article says, "If consumers recognize a brand, it creates a situation where mattress stores are slashing prices to compete with…

You can easily test TV brands by going to a store and looking at them. You can't really test different mattress brands in a store; yes, you can lie on them, but in my experience at least, that doesn't give a very good prediction of what sleeping on the mattress long term will be like. The result is a standard asymmetric information scenario: the seller knows much more than the customer about the actual quality of the…

>You can easily test TV brands by going to a store and looking at them

And a store can easily game this by selecting the most pleasing settings on the most expensive TVs.

Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

#140

Post by joshvm » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 8:01 AM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #111

truculation wrote: post #3

Mattress-packing via machine pix: https://twitter.com/machinepix/status/965691925712875521 Instead of merely airing the bed each morning I run a dehumidifer. Hopefully this will reduce mould & mites. Now HN can tell me why my personal mattress hack is a bad idea.

This is why it's hilarious that they offer return policies. You really think you're going to coax your mattress back into the box?

When I returned a Casper they sent a man&van to pick it up.