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"How hard can it be to implement?"

answers.37signals.com

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Re: "How hard can it be to implement?"

#11

Post by toddheasley »

thisisnotmyname wrote: post #2

Is there really no simpler way to solve this problem? "Moving a message needs to move all of the message's comments, and all of the comments' files, and all of the comments' files' versions." Why can't you just change some top level reference in the database? I'm imagining a Projects table and a TodoLists table. Each TodoList has something like a projectID foreign key right? Why can't you just change that and automat…

I also agree with the sentiment that nothing is ever as simple as it seems. But, yeah, isn't this what relational databases are for?

Re: "How hard can it be to implement?"

#15

Post by prodigal_erik »

sstephenson wrote: post #8
xentronium wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of having ACID when you don't use its advantages, one might wonder.

So your solution is to reimplement Basecamp on top of another database?

From a couple of web searches it sounds like they're on MySQL. Targeting a database that has working transactions has to be less work than implementing transactions yourself from scratch, which it seems everyone stuck on MySQL eventually has to do (that's what they're describing, and I know we've done similar things).

Re: "How hard can it be to implement?"

#16

Post by grandpa »

thisisnotmyname wrote: post #2

Is there really no simpler way to solve this problem? "Moving a message needs to move all of the message's comments, and all of the comments' files, and all of the comments' files' versions." Why can't you just change some top level reference in the database? I'm imagining a Projects table and a TodoLists table. Each TodoList has something like a projectID foreign key right? Why can't you just change that and automat…

That might - might - solve the first 4 points, but certainly nothing after that.

Re: "How hard can it be to implement?"

#17

Post by tomafro »

The comments here remind me of an old Irish joke where a hopelessly lost tourist asks an old man by the side of the road "Can you tell me how to get to Dublin?". After a few minutes thinking, the man replies "Well, you don't want to start from here".

I doubt 37signals wanted to be in a place where an apparently simple change would involve so much work, but that's where they found themselves. They did what they had to do. There's no point snarking about their starting place without knowing how and why they got there.

Re: "How hard can it be to implement?"

#18

Post by bambax »

tomafro wrote: post #17

The comments here remind me of an old Irish joke where a hopelessly lost tourist asks an old man by the side of the road "Can you tell me how to get to Dublin?". After a few minutes thinking, the man replies "Well, you don't want to start from here". I doubt 37signals wanted to be in a place where an apparently simple change would involve so much work, but that's where they found themselves. They did what they had to…

Is this an old Irish joke? I thought I knew for a fact that it was French!

- "Pouvez-vous me dire comment aller à Paris"? - "Ben si j'étais vous je ne partirais pas d'ici!"

Very French in its non-helpful but matter-of-fact way... but maybe the Irish are the same!

Re: "How hard can it be to implement?"

#19

Post by tomafro »

bambax wrote: post #18
tomafro wrote: post #17

The comments here remind me of an old Irish joke where a hopelessly lost tourist asks an old man by the side of the road "Can you tell me how to get to Dublin?". After a few minutes thinking, the man replies "Well, you don't want to start from here". I doubt 37signals wanted to be in a place where an apparently simple change would involve so much work, but that's where they found themselves. They did what they had to…

Is this an old Irish joke? I thought I knew for a fact that it was French! - "Pouvez-vous me dire comment aller à Paris"? - "Ben si j'étais vous je ne partirais pas d'ici!" Very French in its non-helpful but matter-of-fact way... but maybe the Irish are the same!

Your French version feels authentic to me, but then so does the Irish one. I doubt one can say where jokes like these originate. All cultures and languages probably have versions of them.

Re: "How hard can it be to implement?"

#20

Post by dabeeeenster »

prodigal_erik wrote: post #15
sstephenson wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your solution is to reimplement Basecamp on top of another database?

From a couple of web searches it sounds like they're on MySQL. Targeting a database that has working transactions has to be less work than implementing transactions yourself from scratch, which it seems everyone stuck on MySQL eventually has to do (that's what they're describing, and I know we've done similar things).

Depends what MySQL table types they are using. I think MyISAM has no transactional ability.
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