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An Update on Last Week’s Accident

tesla.com

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Re: An Update on Last Week’s Accident

#321

Post by Spooky23 »

kristianc wrote: post #180
pja wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And no, you can't get out of culpability by claiming statistical superiority. Quite. Tesla is deliberately comparing their modern vehicle design & wealthy driver base (statistically one of the safest cohorts) with the entirety of the U.S. driving population. This is bad statistics: We expect Tesla vehicles to have far fewer accidents than the mean US vehicle per mile, because Tesla's are expensive modern vehicles wit…

> Quite. Tesla is deliberately comparing their modern vehicle design & wealthy driver base (statistically one of the safest cohorts) with the entirety of the U.S. driving population. This is bad statistics: We expect Tesla vehicles to have far fewer accidents than the mean US vehicle per mile, because Tesla's are expensive modern vehicles with (relatively) wealthy drivers who can afford to keep them maintained & will…

Wealthy people tend to be older, which directly correlates to less impulsive or stupid behavior on the road.

People who buy a super expensive car have more to lose than some dude in a 10 year old hoopty.

Maintenance standards vary. We can presume that big brother Tesla maintained the car as they would have castigated the driver for not doing so. They are also the only game in town.

Re: An Update on Last Week’s Accident

#322

Post by xiphias »

fricat1ve wrote: post #289
jakecopp wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your intention, though isn't it inevitable self driving cars will kill people even if they are 1000x safer than humans? If a CEO has many millions of cars running his software, their will always be a death. In that case, nobody would want to take on that responsibility so nobody would build self driving cars. Therefore humans will still drive cars and there will be 1000x more deaths, most preventable wit…

They don't need to be 1000x safer than humans. If they are 2x safer than humans, that is plenty for me to support using them. The issue is determining how safe they in fact are, to appropriately high confidence, before putting people at risk. That is something that "tech" companies will in all likelihood never be able to do, since they seem uniquely designed to betray and lose the public's trust at the earliest oppor…

It's not always true. Waymo is a clear exception: their car was at current Tesla's level 5 years ago, but they chose not to run into production. Many Google engineers left from the team because they wanted to see their work in public, but Larry clearly wanted safe L4 driving before getting to the roads.

(of course Google did lots of ,,ungoogly'' things in the past few years, but at least they got Waymo right)

Re: An Update on Last Week’s Accident

#323

Post by utnick »

chaboud wrote: post #83

"The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider with the crushed crash attenuator, but the vehicle logs show that no action was taken." This seems to be trying to suggest that the driver had 6 seconds of clear driving-toward-death time to correct for the car's actions without explicitly making such a ridiculous statement (while also throwing in the crushed crash attenuat…

Yup this also mean that Tesla's radar and camera systems had 5 seconds to realize it was driving straight into an unmoving concrete barrier and did nothing...

Re: An Update on Last Week’s Accident

#324

Post by slavik81 »

barnabes wrote: post #238
obeattie wrote: post #224

To me there is a stunning lack of compassion and decency in the response to these incidents by both Tesla and Uber. Uber made sure to point out that the victim of their incident was homeless. Tesla is pointing out how the driver received unrelated cues earlier in the journey. None of this information is relevant. They’re trying to bamboozle the reader in an effort to improve their images at the expense of victims who…

Yeah, but it seems that they may be, statistically speaking, right. The fears that surround self driving cars may be unfounded, and if they are unfounded, then it would be a shame to throw the baby out with the bathwater. They're right when they say we don't speak of the accidents that didn't happen, and I bet there's a ton of them. As someone who's been in multiple car crashes, as a passenger, I really on longer wan…

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzD4tIvPHwE

What exactly am I looking at? The video itself says it's a computer-piloted takeoff, the YouTube title says it's a computer-piloted landing, and the top-voted comment says it's a human-piloted fly-by.

edit: it appears to be this flight: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_296

Re: An Update on Last Week’s Accident

#325

Post by pentae »

jVinc wrote: post #159

I really hate the whole Tesla angle of "technically we are not lying but we know people are going to mis-remember and misrepresent what we are writing". Take for instance: > The driver had received several visual and one audible hands-on warning earlier in the drive... What this means is that during this incident there were No visual or audible clues that a crash was about to happen What they are saying is that while…

Don't you think being honest about their fuckups in situations involving death is just a massive lawsuit? You can't do that in America.

Re: An Update on Last Week’s Accident

#326

Post by xiphias »

newman8r wrote: post #204
tstrimple wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's in the techcrunch image, not the imgur. The barrier with the yellow face is designed to collapse. https://techcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/screen-sho...

that image also makes me wonder if tesla's system is designed to identify knocked-over cones. It's one of those things that would be easy to code for, but also easy to overlook.

It's quite hard if you take into account that machine learning needs 10000x the training data that a human needs, and Tesla is sold in 30+ countries (and used in much more).

I think 3d mapping the surrounding world correctly using multiple cameras (what humans are doing) is more generalizable.

Re: An Update on Last Week’s Accident

#327

Post by kj65557 »

yougotit wrote: post #291
biktor_gj wrote: post #192

I don't care about Tesla at all, not a fan boy or anything, but I don't understand all the blaming on Tesla for this accident. So, the guy had complained 'between 7 and 10 times' about Autopilot malfunctioning there, yet he kept on using it Autopilot disengaged before the crash, giving visual and audible alerts before turning off, yet he didn't take the wheel, so he probably was doing something else instead of keepin…

Ha, you just fell for Tesla PR. Maybe you should read their statement again. It is gullible people like you that they create these misleading statements.

No need for ad hominem attacks. You make no rebuttals to the points made by the comment above and just dismiss it as PR. Just because something is (or isn't) PR doesn't mean that it's false.

Re: An Update on Last Week’s Accident

#330

Post by s17n »

_pmf_ wrote: post #228
mickronome wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I find it deplorable that several companies are essentially using people, although in this case apparently willing, participants in testing auto pilot or autonomous driving software. I also find the lack of prominent road markings, signage, or any significant shock absorbing zone simply astonishing! It makes me wonder, is that layout actually on purpose? I truly find it hard to believe that a road or traffic au…

What irks me is that they think it's OK for them to advertise it as auto-pilot, with an asterisk pointing to the fine print that says "aw shucks, not actually, haha".

Well all that an actual autopilot (on a plane) does is maintain your velocity and heading, so if anything the name is underselling it.
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