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Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

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Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#411

Post by tonyedgecombe »

__david__ wrote: post #322
stephen_g wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the kind of thing people with delayed sleep cycles hear all the time. There is a group of people for which your solution is impossible . Your circadian rhythm is compatible with that kind of schedule, and that's great. Some other people can't do that. I mean, I can wake up early regularly but eventually get into a sort of perpetual feeling just like jet-lag with symptoms of sleep deprivation (even whe…

I'm the same way. I've had a couple times in my life where things lined up with the rest of the world. Waking up in the 6 to 7am range and going to sleep before midnight. It was interesting to live on a "normal" schedule for a while. And also very convenient--normally all appointments happen happen after noon which halves the available window right off the bat. But my schedule always slides to my natural rhythm.

But my schedule always slides to my natural rhythm.

I struggle to understand why, is that a decision you are making either consciously or unconsciously, or is it something about your environment?

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#412

Post by barry-cotter »

riazrizvi wrote: post #377
stordoff wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when I'm very deliberately making sure there are no distractions (no lights on, no electronics, fan for white noise) and/or I'm exhausted (been awake for >2 days), I find it _very_ difficult to sleep before 3am, and that time will gradually slip back to the point where it's often easier to skip a night's sleep to "resync" my sleep schedule. Probably not the case for every one, but it's difficult to not see that…

What is the biological property of 3am to you? Is it a particular time of darkness? Is it a set point of time after you have woken up? What happens when you travel to a different time zone, do you adapt?

Circadian rhythms depend on time since sunrise/sunset.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#413

Post by barry-cotter »

JepZ wrote: post #354
digitaltrees wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the body has a cycle of hormone release that makes people alert or tired at different times and trying to change it is almost impossible. There is a theory that we evolved different sleep schedules so that one member of a tribe would be awake at any point in time to be alert to danger. This is not a question of mere will or discipline. You try staying awake until 7am every night and see how it feels.

Then humans must be different in that respect. In fact, I changed my sleep schedules multiple times in the last two years alone (from getting up at 6am to going to bed at 6am). The only constant seems to be that I require 8 hours of sleep. For a few days I can get by with 6 hours, but after a week or so with less than 8 hours I get kinda sick for as long as I don't catch up. However, while I feel that my body has som…

Night shift workers die younger than people whose shift rotates die younger than people who work a day shift.

And one way people acclimate to different sleep schedules is by forgetting what not feeling like shit feels like. People do not acclimate to commuting, they forget what not feeling terrible all the time feels like.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#414

Post by barry-cotter »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #411
__david__ wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the same way. I've had a couple times in my life where things lined up with the rest of the world. Waking up in the 6 to 7am range and going to sleep before midnight. It was interesting to live on a "normal" schedule for a while. And also very convenient--normally all appointments happen happen after noon which halves the available window right off the bat. But my schedule always slides to my natural rhythm.

But my schedule always slides to my natural rhythm. I struggle to understand why, is that a decision you are making either consciously or unconsciously, or is it something about your environment?

It’s their bodies’ reaction to sunlight. There are plenty of nocturnal animals and plenty of diurnal ones. They don’t have clocks or screens to know when to wake and when to sleep. Neither did we until very recently.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#415

Post by barry-cotter »

jzymbaluk wrote: post #179
PeterStuer wrote: post #173

I used to be a typical 'owl' as a student and when I worked in research. My peak performance hour were from 10pm to 4am. When you get kids and an 'industry' job, that isn't an option. It took me about 7 years to switch. Now I'm a true morning person. Best hours are now from 6am to 2pm. Afternoons are horror though. I can barely stay awake 2pm - 5pm.

How did you make that switch? I'm having a lot of trouble in the transition from night owl to early bird and I could use any advice I can get

It happens naturally as you get older. There’s nothing you can do to hasten the transition. Regular exercise helps with sleep but if you stop the effects on sleep end.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#416

Post by jjeaff »

chris_va wrote: post #404
iovrthoughtthis wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but think American work culture / expectations are pretty toxic.

It can be this bad, but it's not very common. Usually it happens in a job with fixed hours. Are you opening up the store in the morning? You'd better be there on time.

Exactly. Or even production line workers. You can cost the company big money if they have to stop the line for you.

There are lots of jobs where it is not unreasonable to require punctuality on a pretty regular basis.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#417

Post by stephen_g »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #411
__david__ wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the same way. I've had a couple times in my life where things lined up with the rest of the world. Waking up in the 6 to 7am range and going to sleep before midnight. It was interesting to live on a "normal" schedule for a while. And also very convenient--normally all appointments happen happen after noon which halves the available window right off the bat. But my schedule always slides to my natural rhythm.

But my schedule always slides to my natural rhythm. I struggle to understand why, is that a decision you are making either consciously or unconsciously, or is it something about your environment?

For me, either I can’t fall asleep earlier no matter how good ‘sleep hygiene’ I have, how little screen time before bed, how long I avoid caffeine for, etc. or if I do fall asleep earlier because I’m exhausted I seem to get lower quality sleep and it gets harder and harder to wake up on time.

For me, it’s absolutely not a conscious choice, and it hasn’t changed depending on the level of stress I’ve been under, and I’ve tried all sorts of things across living in three different places over the years...

I eventually found sleep science research that suggests that it is just extremely difficult to go against your natural circadian rhythm. I guess the problem for delayed people (and if I recall the statistics correctly, the severity of my sleep cycle delay is such that it only affects something like 2-5% of adults, but I think more than 10 or 20 percent of adolescents) is that anyone can be lazy and sleep in, but it’s far, far harder to go the other way - so the majority of the population with a normal or early cycle can just go to bed earlier and function normally waking up earlier, but it doesn’t work for everyone.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#418

Post by eecc »

Decade wrote: post #58
jaltekruse wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several countries in Europe that give maternity/paternity leave and vacation time to all full time employees by law. The result is not a massive drop in productivity, on the contrary studies have indicated higher overall productivity in many cases. There are things besides short term business gain that societies can invest in that can end up with everyone better off in the long run, even economically.

And where is the European Apple? European Google? European Facebook? Even the European Intel, ARM, now belongs to Japan.

In EU we didn't have the same amount of military government spending that you folks had. Most of the technological base for the ICT revolution was paid by the US taxpayer on the grounds of beating - or at least keeping in check - the Russians in a war. But yeah, even Ayn Rand got her assistance from government, why not her followers?

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#419

Post by herbst »

davesque wrote: post #264
endymi0n wrote: post #10

I used to have lots of problems getting up early and always championed later times. Growing up through my twenties, it was great seeing finally seeing more and more evidence for a later school start and I was hopeful for future teens. But it wasn't until my first kid that I finally understood that school doesn't start this early because it's good for the learning experience. It starts this early so parents can get th…

In related news, poor performance at work tied to work hours that don't match our biological clocks.

I am one of those long sleepers. One time my job hours were cut in half and I took only 4-5 hour afternoon work. My productivity was pretty much the same than with 8 hours before.

I wish more employers would be more flexible with time.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#420

Post by herbst »

cup-of-tea wrote: post #321
endymi0n wrote: post #10

I used to have lots of problems getting up early and always championed later times. Growing up through my twenties, it was great seeing finally seeing more and more evidence for a later school start and I was hopeful for future teens. But it wasn't until my first kid that I finally understood that school doesn't start this early because it's good for the learning experience. It starts this early so parents can get th…

I did too, but I always assumed that if school started an hour later I'd go to bed an hour later and still struggle to get up. Why do you think it would be different?

Did you ever try? I can't tell you why but me and many other people seem to have a biological clock that is out of sync with our societies expections.

For whatever reason I simply am more energetic and happy if I sleep until noon. Even if that means sleeping 12 hours, instead of 8 or so.

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