61–70 of 447 posts
The other factor is: At 9:30 am, the left lane (lane #2, that stays on 101) is usually packed. He may not have been able to merge in from the #1 lane (HOV-to-Hwy85-flyover lane) into that left lane. Especially if there was a big speed differential. Although 150 meters is plenty to stop in the median. (Do we know which lane he was in before hitting the divider?)
Their statement blames: -The driver -The crushed barrier -Statistics But they do not take responsibility themselves. It's apparent and in my opinion shameful. If Tesla's goal of this is to just share the facts, why didn't they state what AutoPilot did? In addition to statements like "...the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision.", wouldn't it make sense to have a stateme…
If indeed it was auto-pilot's fault, they will likely put the statement out later.
Tesla demonstrates their usual abuse of statistics. 1.25 fatalities per 100 million miles is the average across all types of terrain, conditions, and cars.
The death rate in rural roads is much higher than in urban areas. The death rate on highways is much lower than average. The death rate with new cars is much lower than average.
The autopilot will not engage in the most dangerous conditions. This alone will improve the fatality rate, even if the driver does all the work.
Tesla cars are modern luxury cars. They appear to have done a great job building a well constructed, safe, car. This does not mean their autopilot is not dangerous.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
You’re missing the point. The crucial fact according to OP is that the car did something that a fully aware driver would not ever do. It’s at least worth acknowledging that.
It sounds like peering into the black box of autopilot and anthropomorphising some parts of it but not others. Why not say "autopilot sometimes drives into barriers and also humans sometimes drive into barriers."? In both cases the driver/autopilot failed for whatever reason.
If one system is steering the vehicle into things that the other system would, in most conditions, reliably avoid, it bears some discussion.
Really not much additional info here aside from the number of warnings the driver had. Also, the standard "Tesla is 10x safer" metrics that get pulled out each time a crash gets sensationalized. What I think they fail to address, especially in this case, is that the autopilot did something a human driver who was paying attention would never do. Autopilot does a great job of saving people from things even a wary drive…
> the autopilot did something a human driver who was paying attention would never do. Then how did the crushed barrier get crushed before the Tesla hit it? Clearly, the stretch of road is unsafe enough to trick humans drivers (and, clearly, Tesla should improve).
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the autopilot did something a human driver who was paying attention would never do. Then how did the crushed barrier get crushed before the Tesla hit it? Clearly, the stretch of road is unsafe enough to trick humans drivers (and, clearly, Tesla should improve).
I'm obviously not privy to the details of the prior crash, but I'm pretty sure any healthy human would not deliberately drive into the barrier. The most likely scenarios I can think of would be not paying attention and drifting into the barrier, attempting to avoid a car merging into the lane (and not paying enough attention), or being struck by another car and being forced into the barrier.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
it's a mistake that healthy humans make all the time, which is why those crash barriers exist in the first place, and why that particular crash barrier was damaged by a previous crash.
You’re missing the point. The crucial fact according to OP is that the car did something that a fully aware driver would not ever do. It’s at least worth acknowledging that.
Really not much additional info here aside from the number of warnings the driver had. Also, the standard "Tesla is 10x safer" metrics that get pulled out each time a crash gets sensationalized. What I think they fail to address, especially in this case, is that the autopilot did something a human driver who was paying attention would never do. Autopilot does a great job of saving people from things even a wary drive…
true. here’s the location (post #62)
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-crash-on-us-...
but the average person in the US anyway is not a good driver. i very often see people get aurprised at the lane ending at that exact spot. they should put a rumble strip leading up to it.
So, my question is, is it fair to compare AP to a human driver paying attention or is it more fair to compare it to an average driver.
I mean that just for the sake of argument. In this specific case, NTSB or someone should ban AP. It is so obvious what’s about to happen there, an AP should do what a driver should do which is take the ramp whether it’s a wrong turn or not. So many a-holes try to squeeze in last second (oops) when they should just take the damn exit or miss the damn exit as the case may be. What AP did here is what a poor and panicked driver would do and that’s just not acceptable.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
You’re missing the point. The crucial fact according to OP is that the car did something that a fully aware driver would not ever do. It’s at least worth acknowledging that.
"Fully aware" drivers (true Scotsmen) as proposed here statistically do not exist, or at least do not compose the vast majority of drivers. So it is kind of a meaningless comparison to draw.
"The driver had received several visual and one audible hands-on warning earlier in the drive and the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision." Shouldn't you have more audible warnings than visual if you are aware that not complying will lead to an accident?
This feels particularly evasive. If you want to claim that your technology is 10x safer, you should be able to back that up with self-insurance, and not try to put the blame on the driver. If the autopilot does not think it is capable of driving safely, it should pull over to the shoulder of the road, not beep and flash.