Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks • Hacker News Board

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#381

Post by JepZ » Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 12:58 AM UTC

brightball wrote: post #39

endymi0n wrote: post #10

I used to have lots of problems getting up early and always championed later times. Growing up through my twenties, it was great seeing finally seeing more and more evidence for a later school start and I was hopeful for future teens. But it wasn't until my first kid that I finally understood that school doesn't start this early because it's good for the learning experience. It starts this early so parents can get th…

Schools can still help with this by trying to schedule the core academic stuff later in the the day and the less mentally intense stuff like PE earlier in the morning. My kids' elementary school actually does this. They tell parents "if your child has a doctor's appointment or needs to be out for a portion of the day, schedule it at the beginning or end of the day to make sure they don't miss anything important."

So and how about the people who would like to have the mentally intense stuff early in the morning? For example, I have the clearest mind about 5 minutes after I got out of bed.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#382

Post by readme » Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 1:15 AM UTC

Rotdhizon wrote: post #200

tmuir wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was so traumatizing about the showers available to you in high school? Because I certainly remember first period gym, and I just took a shower afterwards. Then I was right as rain.

It was partly social consequence, and party not wanting to be late for class. Since no one used the showers, the ones who did were usually considered weird or creepy. Even more so when the showers are open designed and you are naked in front of the entire locker room(high school only I think). The bigger half though is not wanting to be late for class. Most schools operate on a 5 minute timer between classes and even…

Yep. When I went to high school, literally no one showered. I never saw a single person shower after gym class.

The thing that baffles me about it, is that if you're going to do physical activity like that, a shower after should be mandatory unless you are going home. Otherwise it's pretty gross. The result will be people not trying hard in gym, or people being unsanitary.

I guess this is all because we're ashamed of our bodies or afraid of sexual perverts? What the hell happened to us that we are this way?

I would have been afraid to shower in high school, the way it was. I have since showered in front of many strangers in the military and nothing bad has ever happened to me as a result. If you do have something odd happen, then that should be dealt with. But come on man, high school is not a prison. You are pretty safe to take a shower there.

tl;dr our society would rather be dirty and gross than see the naked bodies of our peers or be seen.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#383

Post by readme » Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 1:17 AM UTC

Rotdhizon wrote: post #240

Apocryphon wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would partitioned showers help with this problem?

Middle schools already have partitioned showers. At least mine did, I imagine most others that have them do as well. The biggest issue with the showering are the time constraints. The social stigma is present, just in a minor fashion. Being late to class trumps all else.

The time constraints are imposed by a school administration that assumes you will not shower or does not want you to shower. The real problem is people are afraid of nudity.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#384

Post by troupe » Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 1:25 AM UTC

I suspect that many of these issues would go away if artificial lighting wasn't involved.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#385

Post by troupe » Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 1:29 AM UTC

Afton wrote: post #198

Balgair wrote: post #98

This study was done on college students, not elementary and HS students, college students at Cal . There are a lot of caveats here and trying to apply them to elementary education is good, but outside the scope. Aside: If you really want test scores to improve, give the kids food. My SO is an educator and she's had kids come in that only get food at school. All weekend they may only eat a bag of Cheetos, sometimes up…

Agreed. Many schools (my kid's school) also provide 'weekend packs'. It's hard to know how much of that gets to the kids, but poverty is a hell of a problem.

So are these children who qualify for free lunch, but come from families that can't qualify for SNAP benefits?

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#386

Post by troupe » Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 1:33 AM UTC

Grieverheart wrote: post #191

During college, I used to play WoW. I think my biological clock was messed up because of it, not because that was my natural biological rhythm. Also, because of the amount of hours I put into WoW, I did not have many hours left to study, affecting my academic performance. Thus, I wonder if the performance is really linked to the biological rhythm, or rather that the biological rhythm is a sign of activities impacting…

This is what I suspect as well. Having been a teen, it seems very likely that a later start time wouldn't help some people who would just stay up later. Now maybe not as many people would do that, but then the issue is more that they just need to turn off the lights and go to sleep earlier.

With great power comes create responsibility. Artificial light is a powerful thing when it comes to messing with natural sleep rhythms.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#387

Post by matte_black » Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 1:44 AM UTC

merinowool wrote: post #353

matte_black wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it’s better to “rewire” these kids before they get to the real world and have to wake up early, or else they will be poor performers.

It is not possible.

Then their fate is sealed.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#388

Post by grzm » Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 1:48 AM UTC

matte_black wrote: post #251

sjg007 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some kids can do it. Some go to sleep earlier and wake up refreshed. Some don't, it's biological that's all. I wish I'd gone to bed earlier in high school but I was wired to stay up late. Same in college. It wasn't until I started working that I got to bed earlier. And after having kids man I can go to bed at 8pm easy.

Then it’s better to “rewire” these kids before they get to the real world and have to wake up early, or else they will be poor performers.

Sleep patterns change throughout life. (Think infants, toddlers, young adults, middle-aged, elderly). The sleep pattern of a given teenager is not necessarily the same as the one they'll have even a few years latter, no external rewiring required.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#389

Post by newfoundglory » Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 2:14 AM UTC

matwood wrote: post #317

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about this man... I get your point but it's a little over dramatic. My 13 year old girl lives with us half the time. Her other parent the other part of the time. They let her keep her phone with her all the time. She can completely skip sleeping entirely for more than 2 days when she has her phone all night, texting with friends. She's having fun, but then she crashes and burns HARD when she comes back t…

This. I mentioned up above that I've always been a morning person along with most of my friends. But, I didn't grow up with a device attached to me. Most of my activities growing up were outside. Going to school early meant more daylight after school to play. Even on weekends I was up with the sun, and often earlier since the surf was typically better early. All spring and summer we would be up at ~4:30am to go fishi…

I've never been a morning person. Always been awake late and struggled to wake up in the morning. Imagine how it feels to have people dismiss this as a problem with screen time when I grew up without any screens! (Literally - not even a TV).

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#390

Post by dzonga » Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 2:27 AM UTC

It's all about the industrial complex design, during the industrial revolution. Kids are supposed to sit in rows, show up to school on time, so they can fit in easily in the factories when they come of age. Also since child labor, was abolished, that means parents who work at factories have to drop their kids of at 0745 School time, so they can catch the buggy / walk to the factory. Once you take the work element, out you'll notice no kids needs to spend 8-10 hours at school. But now since our 'work' is no longer mechanical but more 'conceptual' we've to make school only places to socialize.