Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

DHH Commissions his own Supercar - the Pagani Zonda HH

autoblog.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 97 posts

Re: DHH Commissions his own Supercar - the Pagani Zonda HH

#81

Post by code_duck »

ptomato wrote: post #67
code_duck wrote: post #38

I can't say I'm impressed by the self-indulgent, flashy way this businessman chooses to spend his wealth. Sure, it's typical - exactly that. It's clear that _why was right on about the AXE Body Spray.

How do you have fun? DHH will actually be getting some use out of this car on a track, not (just) using it as a status symbol. Furthermore, he did his best to remain anonymous as the purchaser of this car and was apparently quite unhappy when his identity was revealed.

It's a status symbol. He spends his money like a pro football player or a member of Poison. Bullshit, he didn't try to be anonymous about his Lamborghini racing, by the way.

Re: DHH Commissions his own Supercar - the Pagani Zonda HH

#82

Post by code_duck »

mburney wrote: post #65
code_duck wrote: post #38

I can't say I'm impressed by the self-indulgent, flashy way this businessman chooses to spend his wealth. Sure, it's typical - exactly that. It's clear that _why was right on about the AXE Body Spray.

It doesn't seem to be too typical outside of Fortune 500 companies. It's actually nice to see a 'hacker' entrepreneur spending his wealth.

It's very typical for sports stars and other egotistical young men, however. It would be cooler to see someone sucessful investing or spreading his wealth, at least for his own sake, then blowing it on showy possessions which lose their value immediately, like $700,000 cars.

Re: DHH Commissions his own Supercar - the Pagani Zonda HH

#83

Post by code_duck »

sbaqai wrote: post #66
code_duck wrote: post #38

I can't say I'm impressed by the self-indulgent, flashy way this businessman chooses to spend his wealth. Sure, it's typical - exactly that. It's clear that _why was right on about the AXE Body Spray.

Everyone has hobbies. Auto-racing just happens to be one where the cost can range from a few thousand to a realm of unlimited funds. I'm sure John Carmack's rocketry escapades aren't cheap either. I'm not sure what's self-indulgent or flashy about it. The costs involved are perhaps at a scale that you and I are not use to, but its just another level up. And then there's the Jeff Bezos's and Richard Bransons, who have…

Right, you buy a bespoke 680hp race car for the purpose of masturbation, essentially. Some people choose to invest in other companies. Some people choose to operate charities or donate to them. Others may invest in something that holds its value, like real estate. What type of person spends their money on stuff like this? Not a particularly interesting person.

Re: DHH Commissions his own Supercar - the Pagani Zonda HH

#84

Post by code_duck »

code_duck wrote: post #38

I can't say I'm impressed by the self-indulgent, flashy way this businessman chooses to spend his wealth. Sure, it's typical - exactly that. It's clear that _why was right on about the AXE Body Spray.

Interesting how this was voted up to 6 last night and then is down to 0 this morning. Did the OMG I LOVE 37 SIGNALS voting bloc arrive or something?

Re: DHH Commissions his own Supercar - the Pagani Zonda HH

#86

Post by gjm11 »

byrneseyeview wrote: post #80
gjm11 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying lottery tickets is the extreme end of the spectrum. It's not for everyone. It's not for 99% of people probably. But if you're Andrew Whittaker or Geraldine Williams or Harold and Helen Lerner[1], it turns out that you can do better than the guys patiently working at startups. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lottery_jackpot_records

The expected value of working on a startup is positive. The social value is also positive. And I don't think anyone would argue that, on the margin, you can't do something extra to raise your odds of winning disproportionate to the extra contribution. So lotto tickets appear to be a terrible counterpoint.

Explaining jokes is usually an unsatisfactory business for everyone involved, but:

What's in question is not the value of working in a startup rather than doing nothing at all, but the value of working in a startup relative to the sort of business that DHH founded. So far as I know, it's an open question whether that is positive or negative -- whether you look at the founder's own interests, or those of society, or the amount by which the founder's extra skill and efforts can improve the chances of success.

Of course I was not suggesting, and do not believe, that founding a startup is exactly like buying lottery tickets. I was suggesting that "for such-and-such people, identified in hindsight by the fact that they were very successful, founding a startup appears to have been a tremendous success" -- which I took to be the point PG was making -- is a poor argument for the superiority-for-some-people of founding a startup over founding a "lifestyle business", since there may be no good way to know in advance which people they are, and it may largely come down to luck.

(Which is not the same as saying that there's nothing at all you can do to help your chances of success. Rather, what making a heroic effort does might be to move you from the "almost certain to fail" category to the "quite likely to fail, and some tiny chance of huge success" category, after which it's a matter of luck. And it's perfectly possible -- and I don't profess to know whether it's true -- that on the whole you're likely to do better in a "lifestyle business" in a startup even in that second category.)

Re: DHH Commissions his own Supercar - the Pagani Zonda HH

#87

Post by pg »

garply wrote: post #71
pg wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Investors want the companies they fund to grow fast, but they don't want to "flip" them. They'd much prefer that they grew into large, independent companies, like Google and Facebook. When companies get sold at earlier stages, it's more often because the founders wanted to than the investors. I would never claim that starting a startup (= a company designed to grow very fast) was the only way to get rich. Anyone can…

I hesitated when writing "grow-fast-and-flip", but went ahead because ultimately owners of large funded companies tend to sell a large percentage of their company to the general public via an IPO. But you're right, characterizing an IPO as a "flip" is a stretch. The component of your writing I'm referring to is in How to Make Wealth: "If you wanted to get rich, how would you do it? I think your best bet would be to s…

I don't think there actually is any difference between what I call a startup and what you call the 37signals model.

A startup is a company that creates wealth rapidly by creating technology a lot of people need. While I don't know the details of 37signals' finances, it seems likely that they'd count as one by my definition.

I think the thing that makes people think 37signals is not a startup is that they currently seem to have no interest in selling the company, but instead pay themselves a lot of the revenues as dividends. That's a matter of personal preference, but as I explained here,

http://www.paulgraham.com/prcmc.html

they amount to the same thing.

Re: DHH Commissions his own Supercar - the Pagani Zonda HH

#88

Post by byrneseyeview »

gjm11 wrote: post #86
byrneseyeview wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The expected value of working on a startup is positive. The social value is also positive. And I don't think anyone would argue that, on the margin, you can't do something extra to raise your odds of winning disproportionate to the extra contribution. So lotto tickets appear to be a terrible counterpoint.

Explaining jokes is usually an unsatisfactory business for everyone involved, but: What's in question is not the value of working in a startup rather than doing nothing at all, but the value of working in a startup relative to the sort of business that DHH founded. So far as I know, it's an open question whether that is positive or negative -- whether you look at the founder's own interests, or those of society, or t…

My point was that lotto tickets are a bad decision that works out well for some people. Starting a startup is a good decision that works out poorly for some people.

It's just not helpful to draw the comparison; it's like hearing someone say they like a comedian, and then pointing out that John Wayne Gacy was a popular party performer. The fact that distribution A contains outliers from Distribution B doesn't mean that A and B are even roughly comparable.

Re: DHH Commissions his own Supercar - the Pagani Zonda HH

#89

Post by stevefarnworth »

code_duck wrote: post #83
sbaqai wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has hobbies. Auto-racing just happens to be one where the cost can range from a few thousand to a realm of unlimited funds. I'm sure John Carmack's rocketry escapades aren't cheap either. I'm not sure what's self-indulgent or flashy about it. The costs involved are perhaps at a scale that you and I are not use to, but its just another level up. And then there's the Jeff Bezos's and Richard Bransons, who have…

Right, you buy a bespoke 680hp race car for the purpose of masturbation, essentially. Some people choose to invest in other companies. Some people choose to operate charities or donate to them. Others may invest in something that holds its value, like real estate. What type of person spends their money on stuff like this? Not a particularly interesting person.

Actually, a one-off supercar will more than hold its value. Its value should actually increase (especially seeing as the Zonda it's based on is ending its short production run), as has been shown by the values of Ferrari Enzos which have almost doubled since production ended.

So, from an investment standpoint, it's sound.

Plus, it's his money. He (if it is DHH who bought it) can spend it how he likes, and he likes cars, and has the ability to fulfil a desire. You'd rather he buys another house/apartment? Why? Where's the point in that? Why not take a job in a 7/11 and "get-by" at the end of the week? In fact, why not just put all your money in a low-yield bond and sleep in a tent? Why spend money at all? Why earn money at all?

I will assume you don't like cars or see the point in supercars in general? I was lucky enough to drive a Ferrari F355 around a racetrack a few years back and it was one of the best experiences of my life - because I'm a car fan. A part of me loves them, and my desire to own one isn't as a status-symbol, it's for the feeling I get when I clip an apex on the limit of grip on a racetrack.

Also, from my standpoint, someone who'd rather invest their hard earned money in something sensible than something they truly want isn't a particularly interesting person...

Re: DHH Commissions his own Supercar - the Pagani Zonda HH

#90

Post by tptacek »

byrneseyeview wrote: post #80
gjm11 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying lottery tickets is the extreme end of the spectrum. It's not for everyone. It's not for 99% of people probably. But if you're Andrew Whittaker or Geraldine Williams or Harold and Helen Lerner[1], it turns out that you can do better than the guys patiently working at startups. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lottery_jackpot_records

The expected value of working on a startup is positive. The social value is also positive. And I don't think anyone would argue that, on the margin, you can't do something extra to raise your odds of winning disproportionate to the extra contribution. So lotto tickets appear to be a terrible counterpoint.

The expected value of working on a startup is positive? Can you support that argument with evidence?
Post reply on HN