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Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

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Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#371

Post by barry-cotter »

tehwalrus wrote: post #65
Decade wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And where is the European Apple? European Google? European Facebook? Even the European Intel, ARM, now belongs to Japan.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(no... The USA is below both Norway and Ireland in the rankings table of GDP per capita, pretty consistently over the different measurements.

Comparing the USA as a whole to Ireland or Norway is ludicrous. Compare it to the EU, China, India, Indonesia, Brazil. If you want to compare Ireland to the US you should be looking at individual states. If you insist on comparing to individual countries at least look at ones that are at least a tenth of the population of the US, like France, Gernany, the U.K., Russia, Turkey, Italy, Ukraine.

Ireland’s gdp per capita overstates its wealth substantially as large parts of the economy by value is subsidiaries of US companies which repatriate profits back to the US. For economies like Ireland and Luxembourg better to use gross national product than gross domestic product.

Better again to use average individual consumption but statistics on that have only just begun to be gathered. Average household consumption makes the US look pretty great. The only country higher is the UAE and the top 5 is rounded out by Hong Kong, Switzerland and Luxembourg. Petrostates, city states and the US.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#372

Post by taneq »

briandear wrote: post #96
tehwalrus wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK. https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights (I was actually shocked that Americans don't always get paid holiday.) Note that we also have 6 months paid maternity leave, and 1 weeks paid paternity leave, with both of those extendable on a lower pay rate. New legislation from the 2010-2015 government allows parents to share this leave, even if they work at different companies, and start/stop it during the tim…

And, by the way, Netflix gives an entire paid YEAR off for maternity. I wonder why? Could it be that competition has inspired them to compete? My point: free markets are a powerful thing. When there is no differentiation and everyone is “the same,” then it stifles innovation. Working at Peugeot is no more interesting than working for Renault. Which means their cars are going to be average. But if Peugeot were offerin…

That's great for high end software engineers. What about Walmart or McDonald's employees?

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#373

Post by dna_nerd »

digitaltrees wrote: post #349
dna_nerd wrote: post #335

Wow, our society loves to blame our problems on other people and "the system". "Social jetlag correlates to GPA". Hmm, maybe the students who prioritized school and didn't go out drinking every night ended up doing better. You don't "deserve" good grades just because you're smart. Work hard for it. Get up early. Go to bed. Prioritize. Give something up. That's how life works.

Maybe if we recognize biological differences and structure society to align with that diversity we will get better performance out of everyone. I think it’s kind of insane that we all cram onto roads at the exact time so we can get to the office at the exact time. Why not have staggered schedules; especially if that means better performance from more people.

I totally agree with what you said. We need more personalized education systems. But this article is a red herring. If you actually read the data and figures from the article, the conclusions have been twisted to create clickbait. In particular, the article talks about persistent INSTABILITY of sleeping schedules. "We quantified SJL as the difference between the average phase of activity on class days and non-class days." This has nothing to do with the disadvantage of night owls to non-night owls, but rather talks about the disadvantage of folks who oscillate their sleeping schedule from day to day. It doesn't matter if you're a night owl or not, that's going to kill anyone's productivity. The audience read what they wanted to read, and interpreted this as "night owls vs. early birds".

here's the original article for reference: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-23044-8

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#374

Post by [deleted] »

Rotdhizon wrote: post #200
tmuir wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was so traumatizing about the showers available to you in high school? Because I certainly remember first period gym, and I just took a shower afterwards. Then I was right as rain.

It was partly social consequence, and party not wanting to be late for class. Since no one used the showers, the ones who did were usually considered weird or creepy. Even more so when the showers are open designed and you are naked in front of the entire locker room(high school only I think). The bigger half though is not wanting to be late for class. Most schools operate on a 5 minute timer between classes and even…

[deleted]

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#375

Post by stordoff »

riazrizvi wrote: post #223
patorjk wrote: post #6

> night owls were especially vulnerable, many appearing so chronically jet-lagged that they were unable to perform optimally at any time of day. I experienced this with an 8am biology class I was required to take. It wrecked my whole day. About 1/3 of the way through I just started skipping the class and then later getting notes of the lecture from a friend of mine. It ended up working dramatically well. I got an A,…

It’s hard to go to bed earlier because of interruptions and noise levels on campus, but if they can be managed, so can this problem. The idea that there is some innate biological problem is silly IMO. Young people have no unusual difficulty adjusting to time zones when traveling, but they do have computers and cell phones that are like brain cocaine and very difficult to self manage. I started scheduling shut off tim…

Even when I'm very deliberately making sure there are no distractions (no lights on, no electronics, fan for white noise) and/or I'm exhausted (been awake for >2 days), I find it _very_ difficult to sleep before 3am, and that time will gradually slip back to the point where it's often easier to skip a night's sleep to "resync" my sleep schedule. Probably not the case for every one, but it's difficult to not see that as some innate difference, especially as it has persisted for years across multiple environments.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#376

Post by riazrizvi »

aqme28 wrote: post #327
riazrizvi wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hard to go to bed earlier because of interruptions and noise levels on campus, but if they can be managed, so can this problem. The idea that there is some innate biological problem is silly IMO. Young people have no unusual difficulty adjusting to time zones when traveling, but they do have computers and cell phones that are like brain cocaine and very difficult to self manage. I started scheduling shut off tim…

It's not silly. It is in fact a real thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder

So they have a hard time getting to sleep on time - but it is because of behavior patterns. If it were due to maladaptive body clock regulation there would be evidence of poor adaptation when traveling to different time zones. If it were due to melatonin dysfunction there would be some wild swings in affected populations between summer and winter periods. Instead this is fully explained by routines. Just ask the college swim team who have to get up at 4/5am to train before class, how do they get up so early? They get to bed early.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#377

Post by riazrizvi »

stordoff wrote: post #375
riazrizvi wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hard to go to bed earlier because of interruptions and noise levels on campus, but if they can be managed, so can this problem. The idea that there is some innate biological problem is silly IMO. Young people have no unusual difficulty adjusting to time zones when traveling, but they do have computers and cell phones that are like brain cocaine and very difficult to self manage. I started scheduling shut off tim…

Even when I'm very deliberately making sure there are no distractions (no lights on, no electronics, fan for white noise) and/or I'm exhausted (been awake for >2 days), I find it _very_ difficult to sleep before 3am, and that time will gradually slip back to the point where it's often easier to skip a night's sleep to "resync" my sleep schedule. Probably not the case for every one, but it's difficult to not see that…

What is the biological property of 3am to you? Is it a particular time of darkness? Is it a set point of time after you have woken up? What happens when you travel to a different time zone, do you adapt?

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#378

Post by sjg007 »

lolsal wrote: post #235
sjg007 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some kids can do it. Some go to sleep earlier and wake up refreshed. Some don't, it's biological that's all. I wish I'd gone to bed earlier in high school but I was wired to stay up late. Same in college. It wasn't until I started working that I got to bed earlier. And after having kids man I can go to bed at 8pm easy.

> Some don't, it's biological that's all. That really sounds like we're hand-waving away what is happening. The biology might be an effect, not a cause.

Did you even read the article? It’s about biological circadian rhythms.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#379

Post by stordoff »

matte_black wrote: post #178

This just sounds like more excuses. I know plenty of people who got to class at 7:30 AM on the dot and excelled with straight A's. I never had a problem. So what's different?

In at least some percentage of cases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder Not everyone is like you.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#380

Post by radicalOH »

briandear wrote: post #82
jaltekruse wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several countries in Europe that give maternity/paternity leave and vacation time to all full time employees by law. The result is not a massive drop in productivity, on the contrary studies have indicated higher overall productivity in many cases. There are things besides short term business gain that societies can invest in that can end up with everyone better off in the long run, even economically.

What does that have to do with school start times? Do parents take “parental leave” every morning to take their kids to school later? Of course not. And maternity/paternity leave has little to do with school age kids. France has the “genius” idea to have school only 4 days per week in most places. So Wednesdays off. Parents have to figure out what to do with their kids — they can’t exactly take off every Wednesday. A…

You sure are condescending for someone that doesn't include citations.
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