Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks • Hacker News Board

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#361

Post by oculusthrift » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 11:03 PM UTC

rcthompson wrote: post #275

oculusthrift wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hm, that's very debatable. alot would contend history and science are core but others aren't. I've heard many complain that they never use math in the real world. I think math is core but the problem is its very opinion based. I don't see how other subjects don't build on each other.

If you sleep through European history, you can still learn American history. If you sleep through biology, you can still learn chemistry. If you sleep through algebra, you can't do calculus, period.

so true. STEM master race.

that's why anyone can just sit in a history or physics graduate level course and be fine because they don't build on each other.

Organic chemistry would never depend on bio or chem 1.

however, if you sleep through algebra 1, its not used at all in geometry so its fine. And neither are used in discrete math.

such a bubble..

what if i told you most students don't learn anything past algebra anyway?

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#362

Post by oculusthrift » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 11:11 PM UTC

lopmotr wrote: post #299

oculusthrift wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hm, that's very debatable. alot would contend history and science are core but others aren't. I've heard many complain that they never use math in the real world. I think math is core but the problem is its very opinion based. I don't see how other subjects don't build on each other.

Are the people who never use math high earners? If not, then their complaint actually supports the importance of math.

yeah. they start and run successful small businesses across the country. making millions of dollars. Outside of engineering and accounting, very few professions need math.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#363

Post by mrhappyunhappy » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 11:19 PM UTC

endymi0n wrote: post #10

I used to have lots of problems getting up early and always championed later times. Growing up through my twenties, it was great seeing finally seeing more and more evidence for a later school start and I was hopeful for future teens. But it wasn't until my first kid that I finally understood that school doesn't start this early because it's good for the learning experience. It starts this early so parents can get th…

There’s an excellent ted talk about delaying school starting times.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#364

Post by mrhappyunhappy » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 11:22 PM UTC

nulagrithom wrote: post #341

marshray wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids under 18 used to be valued as factory workers. Our society decided humans become more valuable when they are given the opportunity of a childhood filled with education instead of manual labor.

That's a nice way of looking at it, and I'm not going to argue against it per se, but a cynical part of me thinks there's simply more money to be made by pushing loans on young adults and then using them in the workforce. US student loan debt is somewhere around $1.4 trillion. For comparison, mortgage debt is somewhere around $8.9 trillion. That's a pretty damn big market. [0][1] If that education was free, I'd wholl…

You’re not alone in thinking this.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#365

Post by barry-cotter » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 11:35 PM UTC

oculusthrift wrote: post #361

rcthompson wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you sleep through European history, you can still learn American history. If you sleep through biology, you can still learn chemistry. If you sleep through algebra, you can't do calculus, period.

so true. STEM master race. that's why anyone can just sit in a history or physics graduate level course and be fine because they don't build on each other. Organic chemistry would never depend on bio or chem 1. however, if you sleep through algebra 1, its not used at all in geometry so its fine. And neither are used in discrete math. such a bubble.. what if i told you most students don't learn anything past algebra a…

Physics is applied Maths, of course they build on each other. History and historical knowledge builds on other things, geography most obviously, but primarily on itself. It’s easier to learn and remember history if you already know some. But having studied history it’s quite obvious that at an undergraduate level it builds on itself much, much less than something like Math or Physics. The degree to which upper level courses depend on lower level courses is minimal.

Different fields differ in how much they are built on mental models and how much they’re just a grab bag of connected facts you have to know and learn. Biology has more disconnected you just need to know it stuff than Chemistry.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#366

Post by noobermin » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 11:41 PM UTC

As cute as this is why is this published in sci rep!? is this that revolutionary?

If there were more reasons for me to lose even more faith in academia.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#367

Post by iovrthoughtthis » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 11:43 PM UTC

fwip wrote: post #259

burfog wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that such people can't possibly deal with legal problems, medical problems, car problems... It's not as if you can schedule such things. Well, you could add more problems on a schedule I guess! You can't avoid the bad surprises.

That's very true. Many workers have to go to work with medical problems, take desperate measures if they have car issues, and lose their job if they get arrested. If you've already missed 1 day for "my car broke down" and another for "I was vomiting", that one time you need to get the kid to school might be your 3rd strike.

I can't help but think American work culture / expectations are pretty toxic.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#368

Post by barry-cotter » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 11:46 PM UTC

war1025 wrote: post #216

solarkraft wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but that's at the end of the work day. Difference here. Though I just wouldn't shower in the morning.

I really have no idea what this side tangent is about. I made a comment that getting ready twice in short order is a pain, which is why people wouldn't want to have PE first thing. I don't see what any of this has to do with the difference in showering schedules between white collar and blue collar labor. My dad worked in a factory and showered after he got home from work. That was the time of day that made sense bec…

It’s a class marker, a sign of social status. Sweating is shameful, as is being low social status. You don’t see your father’s job, which he showered afterwards, as something shameful but loads of middle class people would because they’re insecure in their social status, they associated with people of similar income but lower social status. People with much higher status don’t care because they don’t, there’s no chance of them being associated with those with lower status.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#369

Post by rcthompson » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 11:47 PM UTC

oculusthrift wrote: post #361

rcthompson wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you sleep through European history, you can still learn American history. If you sleep through biology, you can still learn chemistry. If you sleep through algebra, you can't do calculus, period.

so true. STEM master race. that's why anyone can just sit in a history or physics graduate level course and be fine because they don't build on each other. Organic chemistry would never depend on bio or chem 1. however, if you sleep through algebra 1, its not used at all in geometry so its fine. And neither are used in discrete math. such a bubble.. what if i told you most students don't learn anything past algebra a…

I think you're reading a lot more into my comment than what's there. I'm not claiming that math classes have a completely linear dependency chain, nor am I saying that no other subjects have classes with meaningful dependencies, and I'm especially not claiming anything about graduate level course work in any subject.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#370

Post by dna_nerd » Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 12:12 AM UTC

merinowool wrote: post #348

dna_nerd wrote: post #335

Wow, our society loves to blame our problems on other people and "the system". "Social jetlag correlates to GPA". Hmm, maybe the students who prioritized school and didn't go out drinking every night ended up doing better. You don't "deserve" good grades just because you're smart. Work hard for it. Get up early. Go to bed. Prioritize. Give something up. That's how life works.

As a "night owl" having trouble to adjust to schedules imposed by "early birds" I find your comment offensive. I don't drink alcohol nor take drugs and didn't go to parties because I found it mostly a waste of time. I worked hard, but it is impossible to be good, when you are constantly sleep deprived.

I'm a night owl too. I dealt with it. It wasn't easy - you have to be disciplined with sleeping schedules. I have to work out every morning to push my body awake. I have to eat right. I have to get regulation lights and blockout curtains and earplugs and meditate before sleep. Good things have never been easy.