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Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

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Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#341

Post by nulagrithom »

marshray wrote: post #248
InitialLastName wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, it's more that our society has decided that humans have no value until they're at least 18 (hell, with college degree requirements that age is approaching 22), so we have to store them somewhere until then.

Kids under 18 used to be valued as factory workers. Our society decided humans become more valuable when they are given the opportunity of a childhood filled with education instead of manual labor.

That's a nice way of looking at it, and I'm not going to argue against it per se, but a cynical part of me thinks there's simply more money to be made by pushing loans on young adults and then using them in the workforce.

US student loan debt is somewhere around $1.4 trillion. For comparison, mortgage debt is somewhere around $8.9 trillion. That's a pretty damn big market. [0][1]

If that education was free, I'd wholly agree with you that it's simply our society deciding this is for the betterment of all. But when you combine these two sources of debt (student loans so we can get jobs that afford us home mortgages) then we're looking at a new, weird, first-world form of debt bondage. [2]

Again, I realize that's a very pessimistic point of view. Will be interesting to see how the history books view it in years to come.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_debt#/media/File:Stude... [1]: https://www.marketplace.org/2018/02/13/economy/divided-decad... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_bondage

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#343

Post by merinowool »

I was never able to hold a 9-5 job. I could manage a year, but during that year I was just physically and mentally exhausted. I just cannot wake up earlier than 8 and at the same time I am unable to get to sleep earlier than 10. In the morning I was asleep and feeling productive in the evening when I was commuting back home. My performance was really bad and employer didn't think I am a good worker. My only choice was to go freelancing where I can adapt work to my waking hours. I think it should be illegal for employers to force 9-5.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#344

Post by bosie »

burfog wrote: post #215
sotojuan wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone is a programmer in the Valley or East Coast that can just Slack their manager "will be an hour late today because X!" and everything is fine. For the vast majority of people, even white collar employees, not being at work at 9 a few times may mean termination.

It seems that such people can't possibly deal with legal problems, medical problems, car problems... It's not as if you can schedule such things. Well, you could add more problems on a schedule I guess! You can't avoid the bad surprises.

> It seems that such people can't possibly deal with legal problems, medical problems, car problems...

230 times a year? they probably can't.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#345

Post by crooked-v »

watwut wrote: post #280
crooked-v wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh... lots of high school students literally fall asleep in the middle of class. There's a reason it's a pop culture cliche.

That is not caused by different natural rhytme, that is caused by them not going to sleep till they are exhausted. It does not happen if they are not allowed to watch TV or browse the net or chat of social whatever and are sent to bed by parents. That pop culture cliché also have only kids who don't give a fuck about anything doing that. And it is fuelled by it being perceived as cool. Overwhelming majority of studen…

I mentioned it because I was one of those kids. There was nothing "cool" about it, and I found my persistent insomnia, relative to high school schedules, frustrating at best. I got detentions several times for falling asleep in the middle of classes I personally found interesting.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#346

Post by nulagrithom »

JepZ wrote: post #311

> It may be time to tailor students’ class schedules to their natural biological rhythms... Why does everybody want to change the world around them and not just adapt themselves to the world, e.g.: 'To earn better grades, students should sync their biological rhythm to their class schedules.' While some might argue that it is not easy to do that, I would respond that such skill is invaluable for your life ahead. Gran…

Conversely, I've suffered through being a night owl with 6am and 7am shifts for years by trying to force myself to bed early. I've tried it all: meditation, exercise, melatonin, sleeping pills, etc etc. I'm just not wired to be a morning person.

So I gave up and asked if I could start coming in at 9am instead. Never felt better.

The world can be surprisingly adaptive sometimes.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#347

Post by digitaltrees »

JepZ wrote: post #311

> It may be time to tailor students’ class schedules to their natural biological rhythms... Why does everybody want to change the world around them and not just adapt themselves to the world, e.g.: 'To earn better grades, students should sync their biological rhythm to their class schedules.' While some might argue that it is not easy to do that, I would respond that such skill is invaluable for your life ahead. Gran…

Because the body has a cycle of hormone release that makes people alert or tired at different times and trying to change it is almost impossible. There is a theory that we evolved different sleep schedules so that one member of a tribe would be awake at any point in time to be alert to danger. This is not a question of mere will or discipline. You try staying awake until 7am every night and see how it feels.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#348

Post by merinowool »

dna_nerd wrote: post #335

Wow, our society loves to blame our problems on other people and "the system". "Social jetlag correlates to GPA". Hmm, maybe the students who prioritized school and didn't go out drinking every night ended up doing better. You don't "deserve" good grades just because you're smart. Work hard for it. Get up early. Go to bed. Prioritize. Give something up. That's how life works.

As a "night owl" having trouble to adjust to schedules imposed by "early birds" I find your comment offensive. I don't drink alcohol nor take drugs and didn't go to parties because I found it mostly a waste of time. I worked hard, but it is impossible to be good, when you are constantly sleep deprived.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#349

Post by digitaltrees »

dna_nerd wrote: post #335

Wow, our society loves to blame our problems on other people and "the system". "Social jetlag correlates to GPA". Hmm, maybe the students who prioritized school and didn't go out drinking every night ended up doing better. You don't "deserve" good grades just because you're smart. Work hard for it. Get up early. Go to bed. Prioritize. Give something up. That's how life works.

Maybe if we recognize biological differences and structure society to align with that diversity we will get better performance out of everyone. I think it’s kind of insane that we all cram onto roads at the exact time so we can get to the office at the exact time. Why not have staggered schedules; especially if that means better performance from more people.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#350

Post by merinowool »

wpasc wrote: post #53

I disagree with ideas that school schedules should shift later. I am a night owl myself, but our "natural" sleep cycle certainly more or less falls in line with school times. We have fully disrupted our circadian rhythms with our lifestyles and especially screens/lights at night. Before artificial light, our sleep/wake schedule was set by the sun. I know we live in a different world today, but I feel like shifting ou…

It is about meeting in the middle. I had a job when I had to be in office at 9 and it was just a nightmare, because to get on time I had to wake up early and only able to sleep 5 hours. Another job was more flexible and I was able to get in at 10. That meant over 6 hours of sleep for me. Imagine the difference between sleeping 5 hours every night or 6-7. This is a huge difference, by shifting things later by an hour. It wouldn't make a difference for morning person.
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