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Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

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Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#301

Post by bluntfang »

jimmy1 wrote: post #189
btkramer9 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do parents need to take their kids to school? I always walked to the school bus, no parents necessary

For some, a bus simply doesn't exist. For others, there is legitimate concerns over the safety of their children -- I would not feel comfortable leaving my kindergartener or first grader walk to a bus stop almost half a mile away at essentially the wee hours of the morning when it is still dark outside. If you are the kid who lives at the first stop, sometimes your bus time is as early as 5:55. I would never force my…

What concerns make you feel uncomfortable? Do you feel uncomfortable leaving your children with close friends or family as well, since statistically most abuse occurs from someone in that group?

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#302

Post by matwood »

Symmetry wrote: post #295
AStellersSeaCow wrote: post #290

I don't doubt that the findings are the case, I've experienced it myself and seen it in plenty others. What I would've liked to see in the paper, though, is more proof of the cause-and-effect relationship's weight here: do people who naturally stay up late get worse grades, or do people who get worse grades end up with worse sleep habits? I'd guess there's some degree of both, but without the study being more longitu…

There are tons of lab experiments showing people's ability to learn goes down when they're sleep deprived. Memory consolidation seems to be one of the principle reasons sleep and given all the in-lab double blind studies it would be amazing if people getting less sleep didn't do worse in school. Which isn't to say that this particular paper or article proves that.

> There are tons of lab experiments showing people's ability to learn goes down when they're sleep deprived.

I get that, but instead of immediately jumping to sleeping later maybe we should look at why kids appear to be going to bed later. All of the devices and distractions have likely pushed people to stay up later and later. Maybe the fix is not to move school times, but have parents take devices away at a reasonable time.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#303

Post by hodl »

mi100hael wrote: post #13

At the same time, the point of college for most kids is to prepare them for a white collar job. If there's a huge client meeting at 10am and there's still 3 hours of preparation to do before they arrive, no one's going to be very sympathetic to the excuse that you have "social jet lag." Expecting college adults to get out of bed before 10 is hardly a substantial burden.

To some extent you can choose the kind of job you want. Maybe the night owl would work at one of those 10-late start ups.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#304

Post by [deleted] »

tmuir wrote: post #222
arkades wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have? Because last I checked puberty and physical growth tend to peter out around 13-14 for females and 15-16 for males (male growth plates seal at about 15; in females, about a year after menarche, and menses itself stabilizes about two years after menarche). Does it make his nebulous conspiracy theory more or less believable that you somehow think the age at which we stop warehousing kids actually has nothing…

Allow me to contextualize all of your controversial deflection: You specifically selected parts of the body that finish maturing earlier than my statement, because it was the most controversial thing that popped into your head. It didn't pop in to your growth plates, it didn't pop into your elbow. It didn't pop into your left middle toe. It popped into your head. You should allow these very statements to marinate in…

[deleted]

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#305

Post by hodl »

daddosi wrote: post #279

Interesting stuff but night owls could also go to bed early, drink a bit less etc I mean, bioritm it isnt the only datapoint.

If they could simply sleep earlier they wouldn't be night owls. Not sure how drink is coreleated with night owlism.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#307

Post by learc83 »

Spooky23 wrote: post #246
tmuir wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a secret: we all did. But ask yourself this. Think back in time to those dreadful experiences and remember the people who didn't _appear_ to dread the experience. Those people dreaded walking naked amongst their 14 year old peers as well, they just did a better job at convincing you that they dreaded it less than you. You could even say that those were the victors who wrote your history.

14 year old me made many decisions that don't seem particularly rational from the perspective of 14+ me. People have different perspectives on these sorts of things.

Excactly. When I was about 4, paper cuts were the worst thing I could imagine. Now they are trivial.

It doesn't mean that 4 year old me was stupid because I thought they hurt so bad, it just means that I've experienced things that hurt much worse.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#308

Post by blattimwind »

bluntfang wrote: post #301
jimmy1 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some, a bus simply doesn't exist. For others, there is legitimate concerns over the safety of their children -- I would not feel comfortable leaving my kindergartener or first grader walk to a bus stop almost half a mile away at essentially the wee hours of the morning when it is still dark outside. If you are the kid who lives at the first stop, sometimes your bus time is as early as 5:55. I would never force my…

What concerns make you feel uncomfortable? Do you feel uncomfortable leaving your children with close friends or family as well, since statistically most abuse occurs from someone in that group?

I believe the term for this phenomenon is "American angst".

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#309

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

bryondowd wrote: post #177
tmuir wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it make your nebulous conspiracy theory more believable or less believable when you consider that the age of 18 is generally when people's bodies have reached full maturity? Personally, if my 22 year old self travelled in time three years backwards to meet 17 year old me, and then travelled 20 years forward to present day to me current me, I have no doubt 18 year old me would the odd man out in this triplet.

18 maybe for physical appearance, but mental maturity and brain development completes in the early-mid 20s. I would definitely be the odd one out at my current age if I were stuck with 17 and 22yo me, unless you were just using physical appearance, in which case yeah, I guess 17 would stand out.

Mental and social maturity continues developing for most of your life. Different life stages have different common problems, and you need to learn different skills to solve them - or sometimes just to cope with them.

In the same way that there isn't much practical (i.e. economic) interest in tailoring schools and college classes to people with different daily cycles, there isn't much interest in teaching people about common problems ahead of time, or running some kind of continuous life challenges training that could potentially do a lot to improve life quality.

In my 50s, one of the common problems my friends have is dealing with parents who are either dying, recently dead, or have a terminal illness like Alzheimer's.

Of course that happens to younger people too, but there are actuarial peaks where it becomes massively more likely that you'll be dealing with a certain set of challenges in a certain decade of life.

There's shockingly little information around about some of these challenges. So it's incorrect to assume that the learning ends after school or college.

You won't learn anything about dealing with these challenges there. You won't even be warned they exist.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#310

Post by 2474 »

imjk wrote: post #108
brightball wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Schools can still help with this by trying to schedule the core academic stuff later in the the day and the less mentally intense stuff like PE earlier in the morning. My kids' elementary school actually does this. They tell parents "if your child has a doctor's appointment or needs to be out for a portion of the day, schedule it at the beginning or end of the day to make sure they don't miss anything important."

I remember nothing worse in High School than waking up showering and getting dressed for school, only to have PE class first period.

Ah, that is a bummer. My high school allowed us to take PE in the summer, for a couple weeks. It was only, maybe, a few hours a day. That way when school started we already had credit for it and none of us smelled awful (well most of us anyway).
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