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Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

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Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#221

Post by ams6110 »

bryondowd wrote: post #165
tmuir wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was so traumatizing about the showers available to you in high school? Because I certainly remember first period gym, and I just took a shower afterwards. Then I was right as rain.

My school didn't allow us to use the showers after PE. First period PE meant you could either minimize your participation or be sweaty all day. The showers were only available for the sports teams after school. Don't know how common that is.

My middle and high schools both required showering after PE class. You had about 10 minutes to shower and dress after class. It was part of the grade actually, if you skipped the shower you got docked a letter.

As I recall it was because all the other teachers didn't want a bunch of sweaty smelly kids in their classes.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#222

Post by tmuir »

arkades wrote: post #211
tmuir wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it make your nebulous conspiracy theory more believable or less believable when you consider that the age of 18 is generally when people's bodies have reached full maturity? Personally, if my 22 year old self travelled in time three years backwards to meet 17 year old me, and then travelled 20 years forward to present day to me current me, I have no doubt 18 year old me would the odd man out in this triplet.

They have? Because last I checked puberty and physical growth tend to peter out around 13-14 for females and 15-16 for males (male growth plates seal at about 15; in females, about a year after menarche, and menses itself stabilizes about two years after menarche). Does it make his nebulous conspiracy theory more or less believable that you somehow think the age at which we stop warehousing kids actually has nothing…

Allow me to contextualize all of your controversial deflection:

You specifically selected parts of the body that finish maturing earlier than my statement, because it was the most controversial thing that popped into your head. It didn't pop in to your growth plates, it didn't pop into your elbow. It didn't pop into your left middle toe. It popped into your head.

You should allow these very statements to marinate in that same head, and see if you can come to the correct conclusion as to which part of your body I was referring to in my original comment.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#223

Post by riazrizvi »

patorjk wrote: post #6

> night owls were especially vulnerable, many appearing so chronically jet-lagged that they were unable to perform optimally at any time of day. I experienced this with an 8am biology class I was required to take. It wrecked my whole day. About 1/3 of the way through I just started skipping the class and then later getting notes of the lecture from a friend of mine. It ended up working dramatically well. I got an A,…

It’s hard to go to bed earlier because of interruptions and noise levels on campus, but if they can be managed, so can this problem. The idea that there is some innate biological problem is silly IMO. Young people have no unusual difficulty adjusting to time zones when traveling, but they do have computers and cell phones that are like brain cocaine and very difficult to self manage. I started scheduling shut off times for my kids’ cell phones and magically they now get up more bright eyed and get themselves to school on time.

Though I suppose there is a self-talk component too, whereby if you convince yourself it’s an innate problem (you’re young, you’re a developer, you’re special) then it might feel more like one. I used to tell myself I couldn’t exercise in the morning, a belief I maintained into my forties, then one year I needed to, after about a month of getting used to it, I was then a morning exerciser...

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#224

Post by tmuir »

anigbrowl wrote: post #158
tmuir wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a secret: we all did. But ask yourself this. Think back in time to those dreadful experiences and remember the people who didn't _appear_ to dread the experience. Those people dreaded walking naked amongst their 14 year old peers as well, they just did a better job at convincing you that they dreaded it less than you. You could even say that those were the victors who wrote your history.

Um, no. Other than some awkward jokes on the first few occasions, it was fine. Possibly this is because the school I went to was pretty new and didn't have any kind of established social hierarchy or bullying culture - it existed, but more as personal animosity.

I just laid out the derivative of your behavior, and then you said

"thats ridiculous, we quickly adapted over a short amount of time".

So, if I hear you correctly, what your saying is that as your understanding over time, lets call this du/dt, has a positive rate of change?

You're probably right though, the biggest trick Copernicus ever pulled was convincing everyone of heliocentricity by employing mathematics. We've been under the illusion ever since.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#225

Post by ngngngng »

Grieverheart wrote: post #191

During college, I used to play WoW. I think my biological clock was messed up because of it, not because that was my natural biological rhythm. Also, because of the amount of hours I put into WoW, I did not have many hours left to study, affecting my academic performance. Thus, I wonder if the performance is really linked to the biological rhythm, or rather that the biological rhythm is a sign of activities impacting…

I agree. Class could start at 10am and if you went to bed at 5am you're going to have a bad time.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#226

Post by dcosson »

cgriswald wrote: post #90
wpasc wrote: post #53

I disagree with ideas that school schedules should shift later. I am a night owl myself, but our "natural" sleep cycle certainly more or less falls in line with school times. We have fully disrupted our circadian rhythms with our lifestyles and especially screens/lights at night. Before artificial light, our sleep/wake schedule was set by the sun. I know we live in a different world today, but I feel like shifting ou…

It is a mischaracterization to say this is all the result of bad habits. Asking teens and young adults to perform between 6 and 9 is like asking a fully mature adult to perform between 3 and 6. > I am a night owl myself, but our "natural" sleep cycle certainly more or less falls in line with school times. This is absolutely not true for adolescents continuing through young adulthood. Adolescents naturally have a dela…

> It is not (necessarily) poor sleep hygiene which causes teens to stay up later, but their own biological processes.

I'm genuinely curious about this, do you have links to evidence of this? You're asserting a certain causal order, but everything I've seen such as the article this thread is purely observational so doesn't say anything about the causality of it.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#227

Post by tmuir »

war1025 wrote: post #216
solarkraft wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but that's at the end of the work day. Difference here. Though I just wouldn't shower in the morning.

I really have no idea what this side tangent is about. I made a comment that getting ready twice in short order is a pain, which is why people wouldn't want to have PE first thing. I don't see what any of this has to do with the difference in showering schedules between white collar and blue collar labor. My dad worked in a factory and showered after he got home from work. That was the time of day that made sense bec…

At the risk of blowing your mind, my analogy was referring to the fact that people usually shower AFTER they get dirty.

Blue collar workers shower after work, because their work is where they get dirty. Its not because some mythical voodoo. It is precisely and unequivocally because they have accumulated waste on the exterior of their bodie.

All of the rest of us that adjusted to the initial new reality of having to expose our privates to our peers by realizing that it was our own anxieties that were the root of these fears. Once we took the leap of faith, and just showered after PE, instead of before, the illusion that exposing our privates to our peers would deliver our imminent death evaporated, just as facing every other irrational fear has.

How about a more extreme example: why do you think Stormy Daniels has been the most successful at parrying the universal wall of controversy that comes at her? Because she literally has gone out of her way to show the entire world what the most of the rest of us are paralyzed with fear of what would happen if our own mother were to see.

Knowing that, would you posit that Stormy Daniels has more, or less experience learning how to cope with stress and fear, when compared to the average person?

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#228

Post by cbhl »

> Overall, men stay up later than women

I would be careful about concluding that women and men have different biological clocks from this observation. I feel like society strongly discourages women from staying up late (constantly telling them it is unsafe / will make them ugly / suggests they are sexually active).

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#229

Post by jsutton »

justherefortart wrote: post #45
anotheryou wrote: post #40

I like how it shows that getting up early ruins the whole day. I have to come an hour early for a meeting every other week and it's always a challenging day... Getting up ~9am is the point at which it doesn't effect my performance anymore (I'd still prefer shifting my sleep phase even further). Sadly this only worked for a job once in my career.

Go to bed earlier. I get up early and have since High School. All I do is make sure I go to bed at a reasonable hour. Going to work, lunch, home early is friggin awesome. Avoiding rush hour, saving me roughly 1 hour a day in traffic, is fantastic. Plus it gives me time to do any personal things in the early afternoon without affecting my work schedule.

And if you don't get tired earlier? I find that even when I wake up early, I'm usually wired around 11pm-12am.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#230

Post by Symmetry »

jimmy1 wrote: post #189
btkramer9 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do parents need to take their kids to school? I always walked to the school bus, no parents necessary

For some, a bus simply doesn't exist. For others, there is legitimate concerns over the safety of their children -- I would not feel comfortable leaving my kindergartener or first grader walk to a bus stop almost half a mile away at essentially the wee hours of the morning when it is still dark outside. If you are the kid who lives at the first stop, sometimes your bus time is as early as 5:55. I would never force my…

Young children are naturally early risers and it's entirely appropriate that their school hours start early and allow parents to drop them off. It's high school and college students that would benefit from later start times and can be trusted to get to class themselves.
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