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U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

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Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#411

Post by philipodonnell »

PurpleBoxDragon wrote: post #405
opportune wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes exactly. Laws which de jure make everyone a criminal simply give the government an excuse to de facto imprison or expel whomever they want, and should be avoided at all costs

This is basically how all laws currently work. The prosecutor gets to pick who to charge (or sometimes gets to pick which case to put in front of a grand jury, though generally the process is so one sided that the prosecutor effectively has full control over what evidence the grand jury sees and is thus able to sway their decision either way). We would need to change the system to remove the choice of enforcing crimi…

Kind of, but the legal system is tilted to prevent people from being unjustly imprisoned, not to ensure that every guilty person is locked up. Prosecutorial discretion and the grand jury process is part of that, but there is always a regular jury as a check to determine if the charges should be dismissed and the "default" if no one does anything is always no charges.

Now, its fair that in practice this can be abused to protect people in power by not charging them, or to get people deported by charging with things no jury would convict on, or scare them into a plea deal. But that is where the political system is supposed to step in (most DAs are elected) and remove prosecutors who are making decisions the voting population doesn't like.

But people don't vote (or don't research or don't care) enough to be an effective check on the legal system like that, which is a whole different set of problems... but my point is that these systems are designed to balance each other, not so that each system is perfect by itself.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#412

Post by PurpleBoxDragon »

philipodonnell wrote: post #411
PurpleBoxDragon wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is basically how all laws currently work. The prosecutor gets to pick who to charge (or sometimes gets to pick which case to put in front of a grand jury, though generally the process is so one sided that the prosecutor effectively has full control over what evidence the grand jury sees and is thus able to sway their decision either way). We would need to change the system to remove the choice of enforcing crimi…

Kind of, but the legal system is tilted to prevent people from being unjustly imprisoned, not to ensure that every guilty person is locked up. Prosecutorial discretion and the grand jury process is part of that, but there is always a regular jury as a check to determine if the charges should be dismissed and the "default" if no one does anything is always no charges. Now, its fair that in practice this can be abused…

>but the legal system is tilted to prevent people from being unjustly imprisoned, not to ensure that every guilty person is locked up.

Not anymore. Now what happens is that once you are targeted all these laws that aren't enforced normally are pulled out, and you end up with an insane maximum potential time spent in prison. At which point a relatively light plea deal is offered. Even if you are innocent, unless you are rich enough to have money to afford a good lawyer, it isn't worth fighting. And even if you are rich, the prosecutor can just fine tune the plea deal until it is better than fighting the charge. This has strongly tilted the system now that most people (something around 90% if memory serves) do not get their day in front of a jury.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#413

Post by froindt »

freehunter wrote: post #127
chx wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> five years of previously used telephone numbers, I couldn't tell even if I wanted to, I go somewhere, pick up a SIM card, trash it when I leave. These days many countries sell them from machines or newsstands at the airport, this is not unusual any more. Japan and the UK, both from 2015: https://cdn.techinasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Screen... http://travelpal.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploa... a…

I have the same problem with my employer's background checks... I'm often required to list 7 years of home addresses, and while I'm not quite a digital nomad and have never been homeless, I have moved quite a few times in the past 7 years. Sometimes to places without a permanent address, sometimes spending a few months with friends. Sometimes in states I didn't technically work in, which makes questions about discrep…

>while I'm not quite a digital nomad and have never been homeless, I have moved quite a few times in the past 7 years.

College is still inside my 7 year window, so I get to include 4 college addresses, 4 internship addresses, and a couple since graduating. I've found my Amazon address list to be immensely helpful. I also started a document to track it.

Copy+paste into those horrible background check online forms makes them more tolerable. The last one I did had to be done in 1 sitting and was estimated to take 30 minutes. Spent 2.5-3 hours on it...

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#414

Post by philipodonnell »

PurpleBoxDragon wrote: post #412
philipodonnell wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of, but the legal system is tilted to prevent people from being unjustly imprisoned, not to ensure that every guilty person is locked up. Prosecutorial discretion and the grand jury process is part of that, but there is always a regular jury as a check to determine if the charges should be dismissed and the "default" if no one does anything is always no charges. Now, its fair that in practice this can be abused…

>but the legal system is tilted to prevent people from being unjustly imprisoned, not to ensure that every guilty person is locked up. Not anymore. Now what happens is that once you are targeted all these laws that aren't enforced normally are pulled out, and you end up with an insane maximum potential time spent in prison. At which point a relatively light plea deal is offered. Even if you are innocent, unless you a…

Not disagreeing. You are pointing out problems with the legal system and suggesting it be changed.

I am pointing out that the legal system is designed this way on purpose, the problem is that the other systems that are supposed to balance it are not doing so, and the focus should be on why the checks and balances are not working, not designing some perfect legal system to exist in isolation.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#415

Post by s73v3r_ »

scottybowl wrote: post #134
s73v3r_ wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because their "opinion" is straight trolling. Not every opinion deserves respect. And I notice you didn't ask about the opinion, but rather just started complaining about everyone else who wasn't in the mood for their bullshit.

How is having a different opinion trolling?

Having a different opinion isn't trolling. But that's not what you're doing here, and most members of this board are intelligent enough to see through your petty screeds about illegal immigrants.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#416

Post by nbdev »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #121
nbdev wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I hate HN. Someone here has an opinion that doesn't toe the line and instead of asking about the opinion, instead of considering he might be right in at least some way, we downvote to oblivion. Bunch of assholes, really.

Because their "opinion" is straight trolling. Not every opinion deserves respect. And I notice you didn't ask about the opinion, but rather just started complaining about everyone else who wasn't in the mood for their bullshit.

An opinion goes against your indoctrination so you cry out an accusation. I didn't question him and I didn't downvote him either.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#417

Post by nbdev »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #415
scottybowl wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is having a different opinion trolling?

Having a different opinion isn't trolling. But that's not what you're doing here, and most members of this board are intelligent enough to see through your petty screeds about illegal immigrants.

There are no "petty screeds." You're imagining things, just like you're imagining that most people want illegal aliens in their country.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#418

Post by HillaryBriss »

coldtea wrote: post #325
HillaryBriss wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think so too. if Trump is still around in Nov 2020, he's overwhelmingly likely to lose. his opposition is extremely motivated and overflowing with a prurient desire to defeat him, while Trump's remaining voters, who have been repeatedly embarrassed and disappointed, have as much motivation to show up at the polls as a child has to show up at a vaccination clinic.

> while Trump's remaining voters, who have been repeatedly embarrassed and disappointed, have as much motivation to show up at the polls as a child has to show up at a vaccination clinic. Have they been? In real life? Or was it rather the inverse (all the impeachment fantasies etc, the collusion stories endlessly appearing and fading, the economy that was "sure" to suffer, etc...).

with all of Trump's personal misbehaviors and misstatements, I'm guessing it's hard for them not to feel embarrassed and/or awkward and/or disappointed. in short, they're demotivated:

* fiscal conservatives have had to defend the guy who brought them new tax laws that increase the deficit

* border wall supporters have had to support a man who just signed an omnibus spending bill which included basically no funding for the wall (not to mention the lack of funding from Mexico, which Trump also promised)

* immigration restrictionists have watched the Trump administration feebly defend travel bans that were immediately held up in the courts

* voters who consider themselves well-mannered, civil conservatives have had to defend a president who frequently insults and/or abruptly fires his own allies and team members

* voters who mistrust Wall Street big banks and want the swamp drained have watched as Trump embraced and employed some of these same Wall Street big bankers, including a couple of Goldman Sachs Democrats, who ushered in a huge corporate tax break

* conservative Christians have had to defend a serial adulterer

* manufacturing workers who were promised a significant revival of the manufacturing base have not seen much progress either, because bringing millions of manufacturing jobs back to the US is really really difficult to accomplish. but Trump promised it during his campaign. "You'll get so tired of winning..."

* what's going on with the US trade gap with China? we shall see, but, as Paul Krugman pointed out recently, Trump is not off to a great start. does he even know what he's doing? which brings me to ...

* voters who respect competence, order, a well-oiled machine, etc are not seeing much of it in this administration. at all.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#419

Post by mancerayder »

bbctol wrote: post #398
downandout wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These questions are almost impossible for some of us to answer completely. I own entire domains of email addresses and make them up on the fly, I've also thrown away dozens of "social media" accounts in the last five years for trivial reasons. That's why this initiative in nonsensical. They'll never know whether the answers to these questions are complete and accurate. I'm pretty sure that later tonight, a new paragr…

It doesn't matter that it's nonsensical in providing actual security; it's here to provide security theater and justify arbitrary punishments.

That's it. No one will scour every Facebook account, posts and so forth. Even Facebook can't do it (hence hiring folks for the very similar reviewing of posts). Instead, it's used as a future legal leverage, OR as a future check in case they need to look into you.

It's insidious, of course, and really makes me regret posting anything to Facebook at all.

Who knows if you're friends with someone who did someone naughty or who is suspect for some reason? Social media has turned into a nightmare.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#420

Post by citrin_ru »

chx wrote: post #51
ineedtosleep wrote: post #13

Pretty absurd that they're asking for all of this and: > [...] In addition to their social media histories, visa applicants will be asked for five years of previously used telephone numbers, email addresses, international travel and deportation status, as well as whether any family members have been involved in terrorist activities. I know a number of people going through, or have been through, the US visa process an…

> five years of previously used telephone numbers, I couldn't tell even if I wanted to, I go somewhere, pick up a SIM card, trash it when I leave. These days many countries sell them from machines or newsstands at the airport, this is not unusual any more. Japan and the UK, both from 2015: https://cdn.techinasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Screen... http://travelpal.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploa... a…

Even if you will keep SIM card, after some time of inactivity SIM card will be blocked and phone number will be added to a pool of number for latter reuse. It is not unusual when the same number assigned to a new customer a year or two after it was last used by another customer.
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