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Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

money.cnn.com

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Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#41

Post by geon »

JamesLeonis wrote: post #19
jdboyd wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not clear on why uTorrent depends on extreme backwards compatibility. Isn't that a currently updated product?

The reason uTorrent can stay small is because it exploits libraries that have existed in Windows since NT, mostly for GUI work. There was also development that incorporated the HTML Application library [1]. At least that was the case when I worked on it back in 2014. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_Application

> it exploits libraries that have existed in Windows since NT

I use uTorrent on my mac.

Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#42

Post by Dylan16807 »

cm2187 wrote: post #6

To be honest it is not a bad thing. The new features in Windows have been rather user hostile and regressions in term of usability and capabilities. I’d be happy with them maintaining the security and adding features as required by advances in hardware, but not treating the OS as a playground for radical creativity and monetisation.

Slowing down is fine, but lowering the amount of development effort overall is not so great. Windows 10, at least outside the kernel, still needs a huge amount of bugfixing and polishing. Mere maintenance is tolerable but not good.

Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#43

Post by srcmap »

rplst8 wrote: post #16
Skunkleton wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already have #1 in the form of WSL.

Yes but it runs inside CMD which is the WORST Windows terminal host.

Just installed Xming, "apt install xfce4-terminal".

DISPLAY=:0.0 xfce4-terminal &

After that, it about 90% of typical Unix setup with all the control key bindings for copy-paste, etc.

I wish WSL 's bash environment can run windows programs/utilities like Cygnus.

Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#44

Post by JamesLeonis »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #35
JamesLeonis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand where you are coming from. You are correct that an constantly changing desktop experience is sub-optimal. I fear we will lose the Microsoft as the silent steward of backwards compatibility, DirectX support, getting manufacturers to make great hardware drivers, the list goes on. It's this part of Microsoft that Windows will lose, because it isn't customer facing. I think the fallout is exactly the opposit…

Actually... It's more common than not for an old game to not work correctly (or at all) in recent versions of Windows without hacks and compatibility wrappers. Try to run a DirectX 6 game on Windows 10. Today, WINE is closer to be that "one continuous system" than Windows is.

A "continuous platform" was more aspirational than fully realized. I bet I could find some of my DirectX9-era games of mine that won't run past Windows 8. But the lack of an hard artificial churn like consoles combined with an open continuous API made PC gaming feel resilient in the face of the chaos.

Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#45

Post by strmpnk »

rplst8 wrote: post #16
Skunkleton wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already have #1 in the form of WSL.

Yes but it runs inside CMD which is the WORST Windows terminal host.

I think you mean conhost (cmd is the shell program, not the terminal). It does have it's rough edges but it's much improved from where it was only a few years ago and its far from the only way to host a WSL session. This includes support for ANSI escape codes (TERM=xterm works fine) and better colors (though you may need to reset the defaults if you're upgrading from an old system). Lastly, there are plenty of other terminal apps which make this much more familiar for folks who prefer things like tabbed windows, or theming.

A second point, WSL programs don't rely on an active conhost shell to keep running. You can kick them off and run them in the background just fine. On one of my machines, I have a full i3 session running with no conhost window in sight. Everything works seamlessly, I can talk to my editor running as a Windows app, cut & paste back and forth, see file change notifications, hook up my docker command with my docker for windows VM, and so on. It's nice enough that I miss it when on my Mac and get annoyed with some of the fussy application alternatives on the typical Linux desktop.

Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#46

Post by larrik »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #35
JamesLeonis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand where you are coming from. You are correct that an constantly changing desktop experience is sub-optimal. I fear we will lose the Microsoft as the silent steward of backwards compatibility, DirectX support, getting manufacturers to make great hardware drivers, the list goes on. It's this part of Microsoft that Windows will lose, because it isn't customer facing. I think the fallout is exactly the opposit…

Actually... It's more common than not for an old game to not work correctly (or at all) in recent versions of Windows without hacks and compatibility wrappers. Try to run a DirectX 6 game on Windows 10. Today, WINE is closer to be that "one continuous system" than Windows is.

Yeah, my Rocksmith 2014 doesn't work at all in Windows 10 due to some weird compatibility thing with the cable that Ubisoft refuses to acknowledge. Meanwhile it runs great in Wine, thankfully.

Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#47

Post by opencl »

srcmap wrote: post #43
rplst8 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but it runs inside CMD which is the WORST Windows terminal host.

Just installed Xming, "apt install xfce4-terminal". DISPLAY=:0.0 xfce4-terminal & After that, it about 90% of typical Unix setup with all the control key bindings for copy-paste, etc. I wish WSL 's bash environment can run windows programs/utilities like Cygnus.

It can run windows programs as of the Fall Creator's Update, and you can also run WSL stuff inside a Powershell window.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/interop

Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#48

Post by 0xfeba »

setquk wrote: post #18
zadjii wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey there, I'm actually on the windows console dev team. Any specific features you're looking for from iTerm2? There's already hundred of items on the backlog, but I'm always curious what things in particular people are looking for.

If it's any consolation what you guys have done with windows 10 is amazing. Big thumbs up here.

Amazing? Resizing, some better keyboard shortcut integration, and transparency?

It's still ages behind *nix OSs.

Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#49

Post by nightski »

I'm just a lowly small business owner, so my opinion isn't worth much. But if this is true, I feel it is a huge mistake. It feels like number chasing at best. Sure, Azure and online services (such as o365) are very profitable for the company, but I feel this is largely because of Windows not in spite of it.

If Windows erodes share or loses it's edge with corporations I feel like Azure & the online services will slide with it. But I don't have access to the data Microsoft execs do and I could be completely wrong. Maybe Azure is mostly Linux servers and o365 isn't really that important to their overall strategy.

Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#50

Post by Analemma_ »

porker wrote: post #40
zadjii wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey there, I'm actually on the windows console dev team. Any specific features you're looking for from iTerm2? There's already hundred of items on the backlog, but I'm always curious what things in particular people are looking for.

Can't answer iTerm2, but I use Cmder daily. I don't think the Windows Console can (as I want for day-to-day usage) 1) show the Git branch in the prompt 2) display nice colours 3) open multiple tabs Looking forward to being proved wrong :) Cmder works well for me but I'd rather have something core to Windows to use instead.

posh-git is a great powershell module that shows your current branch, has customizable colors, and adds tab completion to git commands. I think that stuff should stay as add-ons rather than be built into the console host.
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