Mailchimp Is Shutting Down ICO and Blockchain-Related Emails • Hacker News Board

Re: Mailchimp Is Shutting Down ICO and Blockchain-Related Emails

#41

Post by lightedman » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 2:28 PM UTC

payne92 wrote: post #9

stoev wrote: post #3

When Facebook banned blockchain-related ads it was understandable - they are a closed platform and can chose to accept whatever content they decide to. When Google banned blockchain-related ads it was a much more serious issue - millions of websites are supported by Google ads through AdSense and AdX. Google is the main revenue source of the vast majority of publishers on the open internet. It seems incredibly unfair…

They're not "censoring people for discussing a perfectly legal technology"; read their policy carefully: >>> It’s important to note that this update to our policy does not prevent the discussion of related topics in messages sent through our platform. For example, journalists and publications may send cryptocurrency-related information as long as they’re not involved in the production, sale, exchange, storage, or mar…

"sale, exchange, storage,"

There's no way MailChimp can know about any of this with any reasonable amount of certainty unless they're actively violating their user's privacy and reading the e-mails themselves. Machine learning is horrible with context.

Re: Mailchimp Is Shutting Down ICO and Blockchain-Related Emails

#42

Post by notahacker » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 2:28 PM UTC

Veen wrote: post #20

nukeop wrote: post #5

I'm sure there are many people who think this is ok, because it's not the government doing this, but a "private company". Who needs a totalitarian dictatorship when plain old capitalism works as well if not better?

The difference is that no one is prohibited from creating a marketing automation (spam) organization to deliver ICO and blockchain information over email. In fact, anyone with an email server can do it. If there is a market for ICO and blockchain related email then MailChimp has just created a business opportunity for someone. What would be totalitarian is forcing a company like MailChimp to expose itself unwillingly…

I'd be surprised if someone, somewhere isn't marketing a "marketing automation delivered via blockchain" startup. :)

Re: Mailchimp Is Shutting Down ICO and Blockchain-Related Emails

#43

Post by stoev » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 2:28 PM UTC

beager wrote: post #32

stoev wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They also shouldn’t be burdened with doing due diligence for every ICO to dertermine if they might be aiding and abetting fraud." Legally speaking you are perfectly right - they can do whatever they want. But morally speaking they can't - if they have put themselves in a position where they are so popular and making so much money that it is in the general public's best interest for them to censor certain scam artist…

There’s no “right thing” here. These companies will do what they legally can to ensure their bottom line is as healthy as possible. If that means making broad strokes, cutting corners, and inflicting collateral damage on customers that are situated in fraud-laden landscapes, they’ll do it. What if there were actual Nigerian princes who truly wanted help with currency exchange and were offering a real mutually benefic…

How many people do you think there are who are genuinely interested in hearing about opportunities to transfer wealth out of Nigeria for an unknown prince? I bet it is not a very common interest, so Google are not being lazy for not investing more manpower into it.

However, millions of people are searching about blockchain tech and are reading blockchain-related publishers every day. That is why any company which decides to censor them instead of investing resources into moderating the content is being lazy. Those companies' focus should be on their users' trust because without it they would have never achieved their bottom lines.

Re: Mailchimp Is Shutting Down ICO and Blockchain-Related Emails

#44

Post by atfoster » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 2:29 PM UTC

spectre256 wrote: post #38

spamizbad wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly disagree. A cornerstone of Mailchimp's value proposition is its email deliverability, and its one of the best in the industry at landing emails in people's inboxes. Anything that could compromise that reputation would be a huge blow to their business. ICO and blockchain emails can make spam filters go crazy, I've seen this first-hand. Mailchimp can't control how spam filters work, but it can control, in a br…

This is exactly what I assumed caused them to make this decision. Who knows, a lot of Mailchimp employees might even really like blockchain tech, or be intererested in ICOs, but at the end of the day, if serving ICO/blockchain mail results in lots of emails marked as spam, it puts their whole business at risk.

Also, they could be held legally liable (or at least: party to a suit that suggests their legal liability) that they don't want—it's risk mitigation. But the question is: What of the other ostensible scams on their platform?

Re: Mailchimp Is Shutting Down ICO and Blockchain-Related Emails

#45

Post by vlucas » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 2:30 PM UTC

stoev wrote: post #3

When Facebook banned blockchain-related ads it was understandable - they are a closed platform and can chose to accept whatever content they decide to. When Google banned blockchain-related ads it was a much more serious issue - millions of websites are supported by Google ads through AdSense and AdX. Google is the main revenue source of the vast majority of publishers on the open internet. It seems incredibly unfair…

> What Mailchimp is doing goes one step further - they are directly censoring what companies can share with their customers and what they cannot. This feels incredibly intrusive whether you are a fan of blockchain tech or not.

It's always funny to me when people think they are entitled to free speech to say or send whatever they want on other people's platforms. If MailChimp doesn't want to send your emails, they don't have to. Straight up. Their TOS also likely prevent emails about gambling, or with adult content, etc.

Re: Mailchimp Is Shutting Down ICO and Blockchain-Related Emails

#46

Post by idontpost4389 » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 2:30 PM UTC

Every time something like this happens when company XZ decides they will block any content about YX or people associated with it, there's always a lot of discussion about it being considered censorship or why it isn't because they aren't the government but instead a business.

I don't really understand where the line is drawn though in censorship/discrimination. This mailchimp case is a really bad example but it's on the topic which has been coming up very frequently over the last year where we have seen a lot of sites like Google, Youtube, Facebook, Reddit, Twitter banning topics/people/content from their platform.

I'm wondering how close they get to the case of the infamous bakery people who were determined to be illegally discriminating against the gay couple for not making them a wedding cake [0]. I'm curious when one of these bans is going to be challenged in court and what might happen as a result.

[0] https://aclu-co.org/court-rules-bakery-illegally-discriminat...

Re: Mailchimp Is Shutting Down ICO and Blockchain-Related Emails

#47

Post by chrononaut » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 2:31 PM UTC

stoev wrote: post #3

When Facebook banned blockchain-related ads it was understandable - they are a closed platform and can chose to accept whatever content they decide to. When Google banned blockchain-related ads it was a much more serious issue - millions of websites are supported by Google ads through AdSense and AdX. Google is the main revenue source of the vast majority of publishers on the open internet. It seems incredibly unfair…

I disagree with this, not from the moral arguments that you are making, but from the importance you're seemingly placing on this vertical. E-mail delivery and marketing services are by far the most open market of those that you've listed. For example,

- Google has locked in publishers, so by banning blockchain ads, an advertiser knows their ad will never appear on a given set publishers. No way around that other than working with each publisher themselves; a difficult task to overcome.

- Facebook is still the leading social media network in the world, and not every user regularly uses multiple social networks. With those ads being banned, you know a user who isolated themselves to Facebook will never be seeing blockchain ads through a social media platform.

- Mailchimp? I don't see any exclusive factor to their business. They might be great at deliverability or a leader in their space because of their business processes, but a new company can easily pop up and be able to reach out to the same set of users. It's not like users only select to receive email from Mailchimp.

Re: Mailchimp Is Shutting Down ICO and Blockchain-Related Emails

#48

Post by lightedman » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 2:33 PM UTC

lawnchair wrote: post #6

stoev wrote: post #3

When Facebook banned blockchain-related ads it was understandable - they are a closed platform and can chose to accept whatever content they decide to. When Google banned blockchain-related ads it was a much more serious issue - millions of websites are supported by Google ads through AdSense and AdX. Google is the main revenue source of the vast majority of publishers on the open internet. It seems incredibly unfair…

100% agree and it's nice to hear you're exercising your right as a consumer by boycotting Mailchimp. Having said that, can't Mailchimp do whatever they want? They're a company with their own set of rules and priorities. Seems fine to me as long as they disclose it to customers.

"can't Mailchimp do whatever they want?"

No, they're in fact limited by the contract they present when they offer you their service and relevant laws that may supercede parts of that contract. That would include some privacy laws.

Re: Mailchimp Is Shutting Down ICO and Blockchain-Related Emails

#49

Post by ISL » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 2:34 PM UTC

spamizbad wrote: post #36

stoev wrote: post #3

When Facebook banned blockchain-related ads it was understandable - they are a closed platform and can chose to accept whatever content they decide to. When Google banned blockchain-related ads it was a much more serious issue - millions of websites are supported by Google ads through AdSense and AdX. Google is the main revenue source of the vast majority of publishers on the open internet. It seems incredibly unfair…

Strongly disagree. A cornerstone of Mailchimp's value proposition is its email deliverability, and its one of the best in the industry at landing emails in people's inboxes. Anything that could compromise that reputation would be a huge blow to their business. ICO and blockchain emails can make spam filters go crazy, I've seen this first-hand. Mailchimp can't control how spam filters work, but it can control, in a br…

A middle-ground alternative might be to say, "Hey, delivering blockchain/ICO emails costs us n% more than your average email. Therefore, we will still deliver them, but at n% the usual price."

It's a little like UPS/FedEx charging more for hazardous-material shipping.

If n is large, it will have a similar effect without feeling like MailChimp is out to censor cryptocurrency.

Re: Mailchimp Is Shutting Down ICO and Blockchain-Related Emails

#50

Post by evgen » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 2:36 PM UTC

vertex-four wrote: post #40

Veen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that no one is prohibited from creating a marketing automation (spam) organization to deliver ICO and blockchain information over email. In fact, anyone with an email server can do it. If there is a market for ICO and blockchain related email then MailChimp has just created a business opportunity for someone. What would be totalitarian is forcing a company like MailChimp to expose itself unwillingly…

Actually, not anyone with an email server can do it. That's literally MailChimp's value proposition - that they have servers that are trusted by the major email providers and so have high delivery rates. In order to compete with them, you must ensure that your servers are similarly trusted - the process by which this happens being an undocumented black box that is different for each email provider, which often involv…

And the reason that MailChimp's servers are trusted for delivery to third parties is that they do front-end filtering to keep spammers and scammers off the platform so that third party mail recipients have a reasonable expectation that they can rely upon MailChimp's due diligence legwork. In this case MailChimp is deciding that the vast majority of ICO and Blockchain marketing is spam/scam email and continuing to allow it has a negative impact on those high delivery rates.

Anyone with an email server can try, but given the nature of this particular community it is more likely that this competitor would soon find their email delivery rates hitting 0%.