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U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

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Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#251

Post by MaysonL »

paxy wrote: post #170
prepend wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s much easier to develop evidence for checking a box wrong than convicting a crime. It’s also easier to arrest someone on suspicion of falsifying customs forms and hold indefinitely than to do so on “terrorism” charges. So this does indeed give law enforcement a lot of leeway than not having it is. So, to answer your question, yes.

That still doesn't make sense. To prove they checked the form wrong, you have to prove the actual charge itself (e.g. they are a terrorist, by whatever definition). That itself is enough evidence for deportation.

I would guess that the burden of proof is also less for deportation than for criminal conviction.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#252

Post by davb »

aurelian15 wrote: post #123
jordigh wrote: post #85

I'm not sure I'm planning to visit the US ever again, but if I did, what would count as social media? Does HN count? Does my blog? IRC nickname? Github and Bitbucket accounts? I've never had a Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram, Pinterest or LinkedIn account. The only thing I guess unequivocally counts as social media is my Mastodon accounts.

GitHub is explicitly listed as "social media" on the optional question that is on the ESTA [1] form since 2016. If I remember correctly, the wording is relatively broad, so I would guess that HN and Reddit count as well. [1] https://www.evisaonline.com/en/usa/esta.html

Just an FYI - that website (evisaonline) isn’t an official government site. They seem to be some third party who provide some sort of ESTA application service. The official site is at https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#253

Post by jacquesm »

xvf22 wrote: post #29

While Canada is excluded (so far) I'm just not comfortable going down to the US anymore and supporting this nonsense in any way. I wonder if it'll ever get bad enough where this information must be provided before an overflight.

Do you realize that alternate airports for many Canadian airports are US airports and that you could be forced to go through immigration if your plane ends up at an alternate?

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#254

Post by conkerspoon »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #245
bambax wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's not Trump, it's the US. I will probably never visit that country again, and I don't much care; but, I'm kind of sad for my kids. That said, the world is a big place. Let's hope not every other country does the same.

We don't care. Have a good life.

This kind of condescending smugness helps nobody. You'll start caring when you lose your convention industry, and American corporations find it difficult to bring the best international staff to the US (which has already begun).

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#255

Post by seanmcdirmid »

ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #6

When the United States does something like this others start doing it too, sometimes seemingly just to reciprocate or spite. The US contributes so much to the world with respect to tech, business, culture and science but it’s also an exporter of increasing bureaucracy.

Ya, China will start asking all of us Americans for our WeChat IDs (they would ask for Twitter and Facebook also, but those are blocked).

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#256

Post by conkerspoon »

larkeith wrote: post #230
_acme wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under what conditions would any of these events actually occur? The government isn't going to waste resources to deport someone solely for forgetting an account; they would only go to such effort if there's another reason that they actually care about to deport that person.

The point isn't to go after everyone who fails to completely or accurately answer, but rather to provide a pretext for the deportation of people the government disfavor but lack a criminal case against; for example, an immigrant opposition leader, protestor, or whistleblower.

You forgot brown people. That's who will be targeted the most.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#257

Post by noarchy »

To anyone who has been calling for regulation of social media, here you go. This is what the actual result will gradually look like for everyone: you can ask the government to "protect" you from social media, but it is in the interest of government to work with social media platforms to do anything but protect your privacy. Don't think that your country is immune from the trend. The islands of potential protection from this grow smaller by the day, as pressure mounts, both internally and externally.

Remember that major governments have been, and undoubtedly continue to spy on all of us, either openly or covertly. You can #deletefacebook all you want - you won't be able to opt out of your own government's spying efforts.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#258

Post by sunir »

_acme wrote: post #198
cerebellum wrote: post #135

Your wife forgets to list that yahoo mail account to which she no longer has access and everything is deleted: family gets deported.* You forget to list that LiveJournal, Advogato or Quora accounts: family gets deported.* Your daughter forgets to list that Pinterest account: family gets deported.* Your son forgets to list that last.fm or SoundCloud account: family gets deported.* Your mom forgets her Academia.edu acc…

Under what conditions would any of these events actually occur? The government isn't going to waste resources to deport someone solely for forgetting an account; they would only go to such effort if there's another reason that they actually care about to deport that person.

You have the wrong question.

Whom would it waste resources to deport?

Then can they use this to easily create legal pretext to do so?

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#259

Post by thatfrenchguy »

briandear wrote: post #246
bambax wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's not Trump, it's the US. I will probably never visit that country again, and I don't much care; but, I'm kind of sad for my kids. That said, the world is a big place. Let's hope not every other country does the same.

To get a visa for France, I had to provide my full financial details -- bank statements, information on investments, etc. I also had to provide an FBI background check. To get a visa for China, you can be denied for content of social media posts. In Thailand, you can be arrested upon arrival if you've ever written a blog post critical of the king. The UK can bar entry based on the prior speech of applicants: rapper T…

"bank statements, information on investments, etc"

There is nothing personal in bank statements compared to social media profiles.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#260

Post by zafiro17 »

mulmen wrote: post #182
bambax wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bureaucracy I wouldn't call it bureaucracy, but I don't know of a proper, better name. Hysteria maybe. Not sure.

Oppression is a good start.

There are a lot of people who call this "due diligence." Receiving permission to visit a country is a privilege, not a right. This trend of wanting better data before making decisions is the natural result of there being better data available on which to make it. Banks, loan officers, job offerers, and now nation states are each equally right in taking advantage of whatever you've chosen to put out there in public. I personally have no problem with this, and to the contrary would call to account institutions that make decisions without considering the data.
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