U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#201

Post by nraynaud » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 11:15 PM UTC

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #120

komali2 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't the 5th amendment make those questions impossible to answer? (If you plead the 5th on them, you're.. probably a terrorist...)

If you refuse to answer, they just don't let you in. Someone who doesn't already have some kind of legal status in the US has no right to enter, so they can turn you away for any reason at all.

Actually, they naturally do, but there is a specific law to prevent entering unless some specific criterions are met.

Outside of dictatures, people are born with all the rights, and the law is made to remove them. Those law are generally made to protect the rights of other. The main law that doesn't enter this category is immigration law since changing country doesn't remove any freedom to the citizens of the country of arrival.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#202

Post by anigbrowl » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 11:16 PM UTC

hacknat wrote: post #145

dragonwriter wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visa applications are a far broader class than people going through the naturalization process, and, while there may be an argument that the naturalization process is excessively invasive, an application for citizenship does justify more depth of scrutiny than a visa application.

Really? I think the opposite. The first gate should be the hardest to he through, especially if you get a visa that is a guaranteed path to citizenship like an H1B (H1B to Green Card to Citizen).

a visa that is a guaranteed path to citizenship like an H1B

What?! No. I realize you were speaking casually but please don't throw such misinformation around.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#203

Post by __jal » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 11:16 PM UTC

ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #6

When the United States does something like this others start doing it too, sometimes seemingly just to reciprocate or spite. The US contributes so much to the world with respect to tech, business, culture and science but it’s also an exporter of increasing bureaucracy.

> but it’s also an exporter of increasingly intrusive, dehumanizing panty-sniffing and dangerous precedent due to its undeserved reputation as an exemplar of freedom

FIFY.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#204

Post by _acme » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 11:17 PM UTC

lopmotr wrote: post #162

paulgb wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more hidden effect of this is the chilling effect of this on what would-be immigrants post on social media. E.g. should I remove a photo from the Women's March because it was seen by some as a protest against the current administration?

This has already happened in New Zealand. If you've ever publicly made controversial statements ("have ever publically made a racist statement" [1]), they can deny you a resident visa unless they arbitrarily decide it's OK. You might think you're not a racist, but in the UK, racism law extends to criticizing Islam or even questioning aspects of it. So you better not be an outspoken atheist either. [1] https://www.imm…

Unless NZ is significantly different from most other countries, no one has a right to a resident visa (although some people might have a right to citizenship, such as by descent), so they can already arbitrarily determine whether or not to grant a resident visa.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#205

Post by nraynaud » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 11:18 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #127

chx wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> five years of previously used telephone numbers, I couldn't tell even if I wanted to, I go somewhere, pick up a SIM card, trash it when I leave. These days many countries sell them from machines or newsstands at the airport, this is not unusual any more. Japan and the UK, both from 2015: https://cdn.techinasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Screen... http://travelpal.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploa... a…

I have the same problem with my employer's background checks... I'm often required to list 7 years of home addresses, and while I'm not quite a digital nomad and have never been homeless, I have moved quite a few times in the past 7 years. Sometimes to places without a permanent address, sometimes spending a few months with friends. Sometimes in states I didn't technically work in, which makes questions about discrep…

To enter the US I had to disclose my primary school address and all the following ones. I don't know what I would do if the school had disappeared before the internet was big.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#206

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 11:19 PM UTC

opportune wrote: post #175

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One nice thing about having a President with 50%+ disapproval [1] is all the things that got swept under the rug, previously, can now be made alarming. This might be an unintended way the system clears detritus and scope creep. [1] https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/...

Conversely, it makes running an opposition campaign so easy that the opposition won't need to focus on the big issues. The opposition could focus on morality and pay lip-service to neoliberal diversity theatre while simultaneously selling out to corporate interests. If you're running against Trump in an election, what's the point of drawing the ire of industry (pharma, insurance, military, surveillance, general big-c…

> Conversely, it makes running an opposition campaign so easy that the opposition won't need to focus on the big issues.

Just over 50% disapproval isn't actually that easy to beat; its enough to draw strong candidates of diverse viewpoints into the opposition primary (rather than them sitting out as often happens with a strong incumbent), but not solid enough for opposition complacency. Of course, that number could move strongly either way before candidates are firmly in or out of the primary.

> Personally if Trump loses the next election I think we're going to get the biggest corporate-bootlicker democrat we've ever seen

Personally, I think if the Democrats nominated a candidate like that again, they’ll lose to Trump again, even with his unpopularity.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#207

Post by saagarjha » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 11:20 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #88

chx wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> five years of previously used telephone numbers, I couldn't tell even if I wanted to, I go somewhere, pick up a SIM card, trash it when I leave. These days many countries sell them from machines or newsstands at the airport, this is not unusual any more. Japan and the UK, both from 2015: https://cdn.techinasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Screen... http://travelpal.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploa... a…

odds are if you used it for such a short time they wouldnt know either. And it'd be odd if they say "You failed to disclose 555-555-5555" (ok... but you clearly know the number)

It’s easy to twist that into “you clearly failed to disclose this number because you have something to hide”.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#208

Post by anigbrowl » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 11:20 PM UTC

avtar wrote: post #31

jgh wrote: post #4

the effort to make the US even more unappealing to immigrants marches on...

Immigration aside, I would be curious to see if this type of stance has any impact on tourism stats. I assumed once travel bans started being introduced that conference organizers would adopt stronger preferences for other countries as potential locations but I'm not sure if that's actually happened.

The data you want are in table C https://travel.trade.gov/view/m-2017-I-001/index.asp

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#209

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 11:22 PM UTC

opportune wrote: post #191

adamsea wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The opposition could focus on morality and pay lip-service to neoliberal diversity theatre while simultaneously selling out to corporate interests. Pretty sure any phrase preceded by the word 'neoliberal' is already (by definition) aligned with corporate interests. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism "Neoliberalism or neo-liberalism refers primarily to the 20th-century resurgence of 19th-century ideas assoc…

Yes, I agree, I know what the term means. A common critique of neoliberalism is that it pays lip service to adding diversity to traditionally high status/class/prestige careers and positions without disassembling the unfair power structures that cause those careers and positions to be so desirable. Hence "neoliberal diversity theatre" is somewhat separate from ostensibly selling out to corporate interests, because di…

> Republicans are also neoliberal

Some Democrats and some Republicans are neoliberal; the dominance of the neoliberal faction in the Democratic Party is weakening, and it's even weaker in the Republican Party—Trump is decidedly not a neoliberal.)

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#210

Post by sly010 » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 11:23 PM UTC

paxy wrote: post #170

prepend wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s much easier to develop evidence for checking a box wrong than convicting a crime. It’s also easier to arrest someone on suspicion of falsifying customs forms and hold indefinitely than to do so on “terrorism” charges. So this does indeed give law enforcement a lot of leeway than not having it is. So, to answer your question, yes.

That still doesn't make sense. To prove they checked the form wrong, you have to prove the actual charge itself (e.g. they are a terrorist, by whatever definition). That itself is enough evidence for deportation.

Except the question is "are you or have you been in the past associated with, do you know of, are you a relative of a know or unknown terrorist or a terrorist organization?" (The real question is longer)

Then a similar question for nazis, intelligence agencies, military and some more.

There is a podcast of a story of an immigrant who was associated with a group as a kid. Decades _after_ him immigrating to the US the US declared the group a terrorist organization. Will post the link if I find it.