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U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

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Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#121
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't disagree more - this focuses on giving Americans a chance to get employment before anyone else. What's wrong with that? I'm a Brit and would love the same policy here.

This is why I hate HN. Someone here has an opinion that doesn't toe the line and instead of asking about the opinion, instead of considering he might be right in at least some way, we downvote to oblivion. Bunch of assholes, really.

Because their "opinion" is straight trolling. Not every opinion deserves respect.

And I notice you didn't ask about the opinion, but rather just started complaining about everyone else who wasn't in the mood for their bullshit.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#122
post #96

One thing to know is that apparently the reason for having seemingly idiotic questions on immigration forms ("are you a terrorist?", "are you a nazi war criminal?") is not that the government is stupid but rather that they're there in order to be able to deport someone for answering the question incorrectly in the event that the government wants to deport them but lacks sufficient evidence to pursue a criminal case.…

Doesn't the 5th amendment make those questions impossible to answer? (If you plead the 5th on them, you're.. probably a terrorist...)

The constitution protect non citizens too?

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#123
post #85

I'm not sure I'm planning to visit the US ever again, but if I did, what would count as social media? Does HN count? Does my blog? IRC nickname? Github and Bitbucket accounts? I've never had a Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram, Pinterest or LinkedIn account. The only thing I guess unequivocally counts as social media is my Mastodon accounts.

GitHub is explicitly listed as "social media" on the optional question that is on the ESTA [1] form since 2016. If I remember correctly, the wording is relatively broad, so I would guess that HN and Reddit count as well.

[1] https://www.evisaonline.com/en/usa/esta.html

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the more isolated we will become and the more backward our peers will find us to be Unfortunately, the same strain of thought that is pushing these measures is quite happy with us being more isolated and worse regarded. They think being isolated is manly virtue; that acting in concert with the international community is feminine weakness. Being liked implies that we give something away; being hated implies that we…

Excellent virtue signalling..

Please don't bring these snarl words into HN discussion. They're shallow dismissals that violate the community comment guidelines.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior#.22Virt...

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#125
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just immigrants, but all visitors.

Nah, citizens of most first world countries don't need a visa to enter the US if they're visiting for less than 90 days. This includes western Europe, Australia, Japan, South Korea, the Baltic countries, etc. You can just get on a plane and fly over. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Waiver_Program#/media/Fil...

> Nah, citizens of most first world countries don't need a visa to enter the US if they're visiting for less than 90 days.

That's true, though the Trump Administration has tightened rules for the Visa Waiver Program last year, after floating the idea that they might seek to end it entirely.

So, I think it's perfectly valid to see this as part of a broad policy of making the US less welcome to visitors and immigrants in general, though that policy is also more intensely focussed on repelling immigrants and visitors from non-first-world (or, in the language of our President, “shithole”) countries.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#126
post #96

One thing to know is that apparently the reason for having seemingly idiotic questions on immigration forms ("are you a terrorist?", "are you a nazi war criminal?") is not that the government is stupid but rather that they're there in order to be able to deport someone for answering the question incorrectly in the event that the government wants to deport them but lacks sufficient evidence to pursue a criminal case.…

Doesn't the 5th amendment make those questions impossible to answer? (If you plead the 5th on them, you're.. probably a terrorist...)

I think the government's position may be that travelers do have a right under the fifth amendment to decline to answer these questions if they believe that answering could create a risk of criminal prosecution, but that the government can still use that refusal to answer against the traveler (for example, denying a visa or denying entry to the country), because the government contends that immigration procedures are "administrative" and not "criminal", and being denied entry is merely an administrative decision and not imposition of a criminal punishment.

In general the government has only accepted the idea that refusal to answer questions can't be held against someone in the context of a criminal trial. For example you can certainly take the fifth in a deposition or examination in a civil case, ideally on an attorney's advice, but this decision can be held against you for civil purposes (for instance, the judge can instruct the civil jury that it can consider why the witness didn't want to answer the question). The government's position is most likely that the immigration proceedings have an analogous status where you may be allowed to decline to answer, but an adverse inference can still be drawn from your refusal (like making an assumption that you had something to hide).

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#127
post #51

Pretty absurd that they're asking for all of this and: > [...] In addition to their social media histories, visa applicants will be asked for five years of previously used telephone numbers, email addresses, international travel and deportation status, as well as whether any family members have been involved in terrorist activities. I know a number of people going through, or have been through, the US visa process an…

> five years of previously used telephone numbers, I couldn't tell even if I wanted to, I go somewhere, pick up a SIM card, trash it when I leave. These days many countries sell them from machines or newsstands at the airport, this is not unusual any more. Japan and the UK, both from 2015: https://cdn.techinasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Screen... http://travelpal.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploa... a…

I have the same problem with my employer's background checks... I'm often required to list 7 years of home addresses, and while I'm not quite a digital nomad and have never been homeless, I have moved quite a few times in the past 7 years. Sometimes to places without a permanent address, sometimes spending a few months with friends. Sometimes in states I didn't technically work in, which makes questions about discrepancies really fun. Hell if I can remember all of them. Sometimes I've been known to put down addresses I never officially lived at because I couldn't remember if I ever put in a change of address form or not.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#128
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My point is: Both Democrats and Republics have been complicit in allowing these kind of activities to continue. And the American public would sooner blame the other "side" in this political dog and pony show, than take responsibility for this being what America's fear based society has brought. Stop pushing this "both sides are the same" narrative. It's part of the damn problem. While the Democratic administrations…

> You will have to pardon us if things like visas aren't at the top of the agenda right now. I'm a lefty Democrat, but this is a cop-out. We've been shit on drone strikes and mass surveillance long before the Trump emergency was even a hint over the horizon. There's extensive bipartisan cooperation in Congress on intrusive surveillance via the NSA, ICE, etc.

Sure, it would have been nice to get all Democrats on board, but the only meaningful opposition IS coming from Democrats. Maligning those fighting a rearguard action against an overwhelming majority is not helping.

And I loathe and have been fighting against Feinstein who carries water for the TLA agencies until suddenly they are snooping in her stuff (laws are good for thee but not for me).

People forget that only Democrats were at the forefront of the encryption debate and the clipper chip. Democrats (and damn few of them) were the only ones fighting against the Patriot Act, and got called traitors for it. Remember that?

Do I like drone strikes? Oh, hell, no. Have I been against it even with Obama. Oh, hell, yes. But, if we want to stop this kind of thing, we have to get adults in power who understand that this kind of thing is unproductive on a world stage because you will NEVER get the public at large to truly care (even worse, drone strikes play well politically with a certain set of sub-neanderthals) about people in foreign countries.

As for surveillance, we can't get people on board about surveillance until they get knocked out of their stupor. Well, they're finally out of their stupor and starting to get concerned. Now, we need to focus the message to cause change.

I would argue that I have a larger problem with the expansion of the power of the executive because Congress has largely abandoned its job. But that's a different battle.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#129
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 2016 one was an optional request for people from 32 countries. The new version is to be required and for people from all countries. Going by the numbers from the article, that's a 2.4 orders of magnitude expansion. Are you really equating the two?

Honestly that question itself is just trying to change the subject into a "who is worse A or B?" debate that I refuse to take part in. Both A and B are making the situation worse and neither A nor B are repealing this stuff. Debating who is making the situation worse faster is really besides the point.

Or it is the entire point. People can die slowly from natural causes or quickly from organ failures. Your argument would imply that we shouldn’t bother treating organ failures because we will all die of natural causes eventually anyways. One is objectively better than the other, it’s OK to admit it.

Re: U.S. To Seek Social Media Details from All Visa Applicants

#130
post #85

I'm not sure I'm planning to visit the US ever again, but if I did, what would count as social media? Does HN count? Does my blog? IRC nickname? Github and Bitbucket accounts? I've never had a Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram, Pinterest or LinkedIn account. The only thing I guess unequivocally counts as social media is my Mastodon accounts.

GitHub is explicitly listed as "social media" on the optional question that is on the ESTA [1] form since 2016. If I remember correctly, the wording is relatively broad, so I would guess that HN and Reddit count as well. [1] https://www.evisaonline.com/en/usa/esta.html

Since when did GitHub stop being a code repository and start becoming a social network? Am I using GitHub wrong?
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