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Book Review: Twelve Rules for Life

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Re: Book Review: Twelve Rules for Life

#71

Post by squidi »

danielvaughn wrote: post #9

I'll try to explain why I'm enamored with the guy, though I do try and resist it. I've fallen victim to a few cult followings in my past - Ayn Rand in my teens and then Noam Chomsky in my early twenties. So I know the danger signs of falling into an ideological trapping, and I do see that happening with some of Peterson's fans. But I don't care about the fight against "Postmodern Neo-Marxism" or any of his discussion…

Have you read Religion for Atheists by Alain de Botton? You don’t have to be an atheist to enjoy it but it does have an interesting view on the void that you mentioned.

In some places there are even “church”/gatherings for non-religious people called Sunday Assembly

Re: Book Review: Twelve Rules for Life

#72

Post by cholantesh »

timmytwotime wrote: post #50
personlurking wrote: post #27

One thing I fight with, internally, is his idea that if you "clean up your room", so to speak, your life will start to have meaning. Because of him, and due to doing his Self-Authoring program, I followed the steps, took responsibility for my life and changed a lot of things, but the meaning part has yet to hit me. Perhaps it's there, yet buried, I don't know.

"Clean your room" is an internalization: how can you judge or even change the world if your room (your life) is a mess? The point is to fix yourself first, then start taking on the world. And do it all in small steps. > the meaning part has yet to hit me You don't feel any sort of pride after getting yourself in order? Are you sure you have yourself in order?

The average person could do with a lot more introspection, but to suggest that they cannot effect change or note its imperfections without being perfect themselves is silly.

>You don't feel any sort of pride after getting yourself in order? Are you sure you have yourself in order?

alt: "You didn't feel touched by Jesus/the holy spirit because you didn't reach out with full sincerity."

Re: Book Review: Twelve Rules for Life

#73

Post by timmytwotime »

cholantesh wrote: post #72
timmytwotime wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Clean your room" is an internalization: how can you judge or even change the world if your room (your life) is a mess? The point is to fix yourself first, then start taking on the world. And do it all in small steps. > the meaning part has yet to hit me You don't feel any sort of pride after getting yourself in order? Are you sure you have yourself in order?

The average person could do with a lot more introspection, but to suggest that they cannot effect change or note its imperfections without being perfect themselves is silly. >You don't feel any sort of pride after getting yourself in order? Are you sure you have yourself in order? alt: "You didn't feel touched by Jesus/the holy spirit because you didn't reach out with full sincerity."

> to suggest that they cannot effect change or note its imperfections without being perfect themselves is silly.

It's not the idea of perfection, but the idea of being able to successfully make changes at a small level and slowly and increasingly make more profound changes in your life. There's a great deal of arrogance/idealism to believe you can jump on the bridge and command a ship.

> alt: "You didn't feel touched by Jesus/the holy spirit because you didn't reach out with full sincerity."

Now you're just attacking the strawman.

Re: Book Review: Twelve Rules for Life

#74

Post by timmytwotime »

personlurking wrote: post #57
timmytwotime wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Clean your room" is an internalization: how can you judge or even change the world if your room (your life) is a mess? The point is to fix yourself first, then start taking on the world. And do it all in small steps. > the meaning part has yet to hit me You don't feel any sort of pride after getting yourself in order? Are you sure you have yourself in order?

It's perhaps that the 'getting myself in order' part is still in progress, and I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.

The fact that you are looking for it means something.

Re: Book Review: Twelve Rules for Life

#75

Post by timmytwotime »

thinkingemote wrote: post #66

Interestingly this has been flagged, but there's only a couple of replies that I can see that are grey, and only a couple that's critical of the article and subject. But I can't see any flames at all, just the usual HN courtesy. Is the auto flag mechanism to do with up and down votes of comments? Does that make some comments controversial? I like upvoting comments that go against the stream, but would that mean that…

Probably because Peterson has been associated (wrongly, IMHO) with the alt-right.

Re: Book Review: Twelve Rules for Life

#76

Post by themarlzy »

mercurysmessage wrote: post #68
tryitnow wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for posting this honest revelation. I sympathize as I also had similar infatuations with Rand in my teens and Chomsky in my twenties. However, let me also warn you that this path of becoming infatuated with "thinkers" like Peterson is a dead end. People like Rand, Chomsky and Peterson look heroic merely because they are willing to shout the loudest and attract the spotlight. If you are really searching for…

Peterson is also anti-women and pseudo scientific, not a great intellectual on those counts.

Any examples of his “anti-women” stance?

Re: Book Review: Twelve Rules for Life

#77

Post by mercer »

personlurking wrote: post #57
timmytwotime wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Clean your room" is an internalization: how can you judge or even change the world if your room (your life) is a mess? The point is to fix yourself first, then start taking on the world. And do it all in small steps. > the meaning part has yet to hit me You don't feel any sort of pride after getting yourself in order? Are you sure you have yourself in order?

It's perhaps that the 'getting myself in order' part is still in progress, and I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.

It's perhaps akin to how when a person goes into therapy, the first step, if practical, is to deal with any substance dependency issues. At least where I live, it's a prerequisite for further therapy (barring acute needs, perhaps).

I wouldn't be surprised if this is Peterson's thinking too, although I also wouldn't be surprised if Peterson doesn't know what the 'next step' might be (or is hesitant to recommend it).

At least based on my experience, both a good thing and a failing about modern therapy (and if I understand correctly Peterson is primarily a psychologist/therapist) is that it explicitly does not get too much into the stuff beyond a 'direct', pragmatic kind of mental health. For the rest you're encouraged to look elsewhere or cobble something together yourself.

(this in contrast to, say, priests/pastors/etc.)

Re: Book Review: Twelve Rules for Life

#78

Post by mercurysmessage »

themarlzy wrote: post #76
mercurysmessage wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peterson is also anti-women and pseudo scientific, not a great intellectual on those counts.

Any examples of his “anti-women” stance?

Certainly, I wrote this in another statement, but I'll repost it here:

https://twitter.com/21logician/status/831020059212541956/vid....

Purposefully misrepresents the opinions of those he disagrees with potentially, here. Not to mention how messed up what he is saying is.

https://twitter.com/21logician/status/813901825539788800/vid....

Maybe we should oppress Dawkins, and other atheists. Very hypocritical here.

https://twitter.com/21logician/status/813890243606802432/vid....

You need to be religious to have morals (unless you are Muslim, he hates Muslims...)

There is another video of him stating that women want to be brutally dominated, and that is why women support Islam... can't find the video now though.

https://np.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/615e3z/i_am_dr_jordan_....

Frozen was propaganda, in his mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjON3cwjILQ

Women should just have a family, not try to have a career or work.

There are plenty of examples of him being hypocritical, pseudo scientific, and anti-women. There is a good collection of this on the subreddit enoughpetersonspam.

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