Live data from Hacker News

61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

talent.works

171–180 of 364 posts

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work on email archival. Anyone who says they’re passionate about that is either lying or doped up on barbiturates.

How did you get hired for email archival? Started looking at online applications and every single one has something like "Why do you want to work for us?" and yesterday I saw "How do you add to our diversity?"

What's the problem with those questions?

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#172

It seems to me the whole problem amounts to companies deciding to redefine the word "entry", then acting all disappointed when no one else uses that definition. "Entry" means "to enter the workforce". It means you have pre-work experience such as a specific degree, speak a certain language, etc. If you advertise an "entry level web development" job and I just boot camped for that, I am qualified and will apply. If yo…

Entry Level ought to be 'willing to train', Junior, some experience, Senior, 8+ years of experience.

Sadly title inflation is also a thing.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#173
I guess it depends on how "experience" is defined. I had 8 years of "experience" programming before my first full-time paid job.

I am somewhat entertained every time a see jobs requiring 10+ years of experience with Go or Typescript or Swift. It's a sign of just how well-thought-out these postings are.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#174
post #19

And this is why you lie on your entry level resumes kids.

You can get all the necessary keywords in without lying; and actually lying on your resume is liable to lose you the job or in some cases to cause you trouble even after you have it.

Easy solution: distinguish the stuff that you have "exposure" or "light experience" or whatever (translation: I screwed around with Django for a weekend) from the stuff that you are actually claiming serious experience with ("I've built multiple apps in this technology, successfully submitted a patch to their dev branch, and if pressed could quote various parts of its documentation"). Result: filters and HR people check whatever boxes they need to, and any remotely competent technical person sees what you're actually saying. No lying necessary.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#176
post #172

It seems to me the whole problem amounts to companies deciding to redefine the word "entry", then acting all disappointed when no one else uses that definition. "Entry" means "to enter the workforce". It means you have pre-work experience such as a specific degree, speak a certain language, etc. If you advertise an "entry level web development" job and I just boot camped for that, I am qualified and will apply. If yo…

Entry Level ought to be 'willing to train', Junior, some experience, Senior, 8+ years of experience. Sadly title inflation is also a thing.

I think part of the problem is the titles themselves...

"Senior" implies "Highly Experienced" meaning "lots of years of experience".

Whereas it's completely possible for a person with 3-4 years of experience to be a "Very Good Engineer" within their specific domain and be as valuable, respected, listened-to, etc. as a "Senior Engineer". It doesn't happen often, but it happens.

If we had titles more like "Apprentice", "Journeyman", and "Master" Software Engineer, then we wouldn't have this issue. Someone could be a Journeyman after 2 years or 4 depending on how rapidly they progressed through their "apprenticeship" phase, and to "Master" as soon as they had completed sufficiently complex work to have completed a "masterpiece" equivalent.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#177
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Passion is a relative term. Nobody goes to work at Facebook or Google thinking "wow, I'm so passionate about adverts and tracking, I want to build a world with more ads and tracking in more places". It's normal not to be passionate about your work in that sense. However, some people find computers frustrating, stupid or boring. Such a person probably wouldn't enjoy a job working with them all the time - and it's diff…

Passion: strong and barely controllable emotion. "sufficiently non-loathsome...motivate yourself to do it" is a far cry from passionate. Tangentially related @sarahmei on twitter wrote a thread about passion in tech. IMO she nails it: https://twitter.com/sarahmei/status/921366047122268165

Passion comes from a Latin root meaning "to suffer". If you work in technology long enough, you will become passionate about it.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#178
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bull. I've been using Python since high school, but very few employers I've ever spoken to were willing to actually label me as having any years of experience in Python.

Did you have anything to show for your work since high school? Any projects online? Github codebase? I know a Github profile shouldn't necessarily be required to count as experience. But if your only experience is non-work related then you're probably going to want to back it up with something tangible.

I have something of a github, yes. https://github.com/esennesh

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#179
post #172

It seems to me the whole problem amounts to companies deciding to redefine the word "entry", then acting all disappointed when no one else uses that definition. "Entry" means "to enter the workforce". It means you have pre-work experience such as a specific degree, speak a certain language, etc. If you advertise an "entry level web development" job and I just boot camped for that, I am qualified and will apply. If yo…

Entry Level ought to be 'willing to train', Junior, some experience, Senior, 8+ years of experience. Sadly title inflation is also a thing.

Was going to non-helpfully comment that as the title says:

  61% of "Entry-Level" Jobs require 3+ years of Experience
And of "Senior Software Engineer" jobs require only 3 years of Experience.

In the Bay Area culture, 3 years is enough time to jump jobs once:

  year 1 = figure out how to navigate tech corp
  year 2 = figure out that it's a sh!t show.
  year 3 = jump and find greener pastures.  repeat year 1.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#180
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Entry Level ought to be 'willing to train', Junior, some experience, Senior, 8+ years of experience. Sadly title inflation is also a thing.

I think part of the problem is the titles themselves... "Senior" implies "Highly Experienced" meaning "lots of years of experience". Whereas it's completely possible for a person with 3-4 years of experience to be a "Very Good Engineer" within their specific domain and be as valuable, respected, listened-to, etc. as a "Senior Engineer". It doesn't happen often, but it happens. If we had titles more like "Apprentice",…

Those titles are gendered, unfortunately. If we want such a system, we should adopt new titles that are more inclusive.
Post reply on HN