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61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

talent.works

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Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#51

Post by kushalc »

faitswulff wrote: post #16

This also explains why I started to get so many callbacks on job applications at year 5 in my programming career: > 3, 5 and 8 are your magic numbers. After 5+ years of experience, you (officially) qualify for most mid-level jobs. After 8+ years, you qualify for senior ones. And 3+ for entry-level, obvs.

Right? We see it all the time.

Waterluvian commented below about the hiring markets self-optimizing themselves to efficiency.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16702612

In short, we see so many market inefficiencies in hiring, it'd be hilarious if it weren't folks' lives we were talking about. There's no practical difference between someone who has 4.750 years of experience and 5.250 years of experience, but the market dramatically prefers the latter.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#53

Post by outworlder »

Spooky23 wrote: post #13

It’s not jobs, it’s job postings. You need to demonstrate that no candidates with skills are available to get a visa waiver. It’s called compliance advertising. There’s a whole industry of body shops that do this stuff and collude on rates. The folks they hire are the foot soldiers of banks and government.

This kind of job ad is seen in other countries as well, not just the US, even ones where foreign applicants are really uncommon.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#55

Post by kushalc »

jamestimmins wrote: post #27

The buried lede here seems to be "In real life, folks need to apply to 150-250 jobs to get a job". I'd be so, so interested to see the breakdown here, and what causes these types of numbers. Are there just enormous numbers of applicants for every job? Are people applying for jobs they aren't qualified for? How does this compare in tech vs the rest of the job market? The signal/noise ratio must be absurdly low if this…

These numbers vary dramatically by location and specialty, e.g. a Marketing Assistant in Chicago has very different prospects (and expected # applications to job offer) vs. a Software Engineer in SF vs. an HR specialist in Ohio.

We did an analysis on this awhile ago, specifically about # of days to get a job, but it also has some analysis about # of applications:

https://talent.works/blog/2017/09/22/how-long-does-it-take-t...

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#56

Post by whorleater »

hayksaakian wrote: post #40
jamestimmins wrote: post #27

The buried lede here seems to be "In real life, folks need to apply to 150-250 jobs to get a job". I'd be so, so interested to see the breakdown here, and what causes these types of numbers. Are there just enormous numbers of applicants for every job? Are people applying for jobs they aren't qualified for? How does this compare in tech vs the rest of the job market? The signal/noise ratio must be absurdly low if this…

1) Yes. Any job with entry level requirements will get 20-100 applications on craigslist in seattle (my experience). More or less applications on more or less popular platforms 2) Yes. Half or more of the applications I've reviewed are totally unqualified. Either they ignored the requirements or fudge it and flop on the interview. 3) Tech has even more noise than my personal experience due to higher pay scales and in…

>without any personal interest / passion in technology

Can I not work in tech without being passionate?

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#57

Post by ihsw2 »

crazcarl wrote: post #26
jaimex2 wrote: post #19

And this is why you lie on your entry level resumes kids.

You absolutely shouldn't lie. But you also shouldn't let your lack of experience stop you from applying to entry level jobs.

There is already an information asymmetry, what's wrong with using it to your advantage? Employers do, through withholding salary data during the entirety of your employment -- from initial negotiations, to annual raises/compensation re-evaluation, to performance and retention bonuses, to etc.

Beyond disqualifying yourself, there's not much in terms of risk and the reward (getting your career off the ground) is quite good, especially when faced with writing >200 job applications.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#58

Post by outworlder »

jaimex2 wrote: post #19

And this is why you lie on your entry level resumes kids.

Well, I once interviewed a guy who claimed to have done iOS development since 2007 – basically since the iPhone launch. There was no iOS SDK that year, it only came later. Guy was a bit embarrassed when I pointed that out. This could have been a honest mistake, but then I started looking for more "mistakes" and found a bunch more non-plausible stuff.

I then went ahead and hired another guy with literally zero job experience, but with interesting academic pursuits and who contributed to Compiz. Guy turned out to be amazing.

Don't lie. If a company won't listen to you because you don't have an arbitrary number of years of experience in your CV (what's this, the aviation industry?), then it is not a company you want to be talking to anyway.

EDIT: I should have said "Don't lie during the technical interview"

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#59

Post by orangeshark »

pagnol wrote: post #46
jamestimmins wrote: post #27

The buried lede here seems to be "In real life, folks need to apply to 150-250 jobs to get a job". I'd be so, so interested to see the breakdown here, and what causes these types of numbers. Are there just enormous numbers of applicants for every job? Are people applying for jobs they aren't qualified for? How does this compare in tech vs the rest of the job market? The signal/noise ratio must be absurdly low if this…

I've similarly always struggled to make sense of these kinds of claims, because in my life so far I was offered a job every time I applied, so I'm wondering if I'm either living in an area where the job market is much less competitive or if I'm aiming too low. It's out of the question that I'm some kind of hotshot, on the contrary my CV is a mess and I dropped out ouf college.

From my personal experience in the entry level job market, I have never successfully gotten a job offer to anything I applied to. Only have my current job because a friend recommended me.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#60

Post by williamscales »

aviraldg wrote: post #32
williamscales wrote: post #15

If you go to college and do an internship or research fellowship each summer, you will come out with "3 years" of experience.

Does internship experience really count though, in terms of requirements listed on job descriptions?

Absolutely, assuming you had some responsibility and worked on an interesting project or two during those summers.
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