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61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

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Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#11

Post by jesseryoung »

golergka wrote: post #6

"Require"? The fact that something is written in job description as a "requirement" doesn't mean that you won't get hired without it. I think that most jobs I got as a self taught engineer had a degree as a requirement – and it was almost never even mentioned in an interview.

Was just about to post this. At least in my experience I think that it's rare for a hiring manager or someone in HR to use an original job description when posting a job. They all Google job postings, find one that fits the title modify the technology parts of it and just post it.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#12

Post by bcheung »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #2

I get it though. The employer is thinking: Why do I pay you to train you? You should pay me to train you. Lets bring back the apprentice system.

I've said the same thing myself about bringing back the apprenticeship system. That system required a contract of typically 7 years though and that is why masters would take on apprentices. 7 years is a long time but if there is a way to have your investment not just walk out the door after you spent a bunch of resources getting them up to speed that would make it much more feasible. Perhaps a forgivable loan upon completion of the apprenticeship?

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#13

Post by Spooky23 »

It’s not jobs, it’s job postings.

You need to demonstrate that no candidates with skills are available to get a visa waiver. It’s called compliance advertising. There’s a whole industry of body shops that do this stuff and collude on rates. The folks they hire are the foot soldiers of banks and government.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#14

Post by quaunaut »

Waterluvian wrote: post #5

Won't the market sort out whatever this is? Is there a specific unfair mechanism at play that would prevent supply and demand from finding its balance?

Disclaimer: I use no data, only going off of personal experience and friend circle anecdotes to create a theory.

The balance is that in some ways, we have economy-wide collusion-by-default to keep wages artificially low. I know this sounds ridiculous, but I think we've hit the point of increasing returns on job growth depression.

When one looks at the rate of underemployment and the employment rate writ large, it seems like the number of jobs is just few enough that the pay doesn't have to go up, regardless.

Furthermore, many industries don't seem to really pay attention to using wage as a lever. Often, this is because individual companies have difficulty justifying hiring someone at 20-30% more than their counterparts, and their counterparts haven't received a significant wage increase in years, often decades.

When combined with the rate of inflation not being matched by wage growth, it begins to look "normal" to many employers that wages should be particularly low.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#16

Post by faitswulff »

This also explains why I started to get so many callbacks on job applications at year 5 in my programming career:

> 3, 5 and 8 are your magic numbers. After 5+ years of experience, you (officially) qualify for most mid-level jobs. After 8+ years, you qualify for senior ones. And 3+ for entry-level, obvs.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#17

Post by [deleted] »

lazypenguin wrote: post #4
crimsonalucard wrote: post #2

I get it though. The employer is thinking: Why do I pay you to train you? You should pay me to train you. Lets bring back the apprentice system.

That's not the issue, the issue is the terminology. If you don't want to pay to train someone then don't label it an "entry-level" position. The truth is that many want "mid-level/senior-level" employees (3+ year experience requirements) at "entry-level" salaries.

[deleted]

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#18

Post by RbrtM »

PeterisP wrote: post #7
lazypenguin wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the issue, the issue is the terminology. If you don't want to pay to train someone then don't label it an "entry-level" position. The truth is that many want "mid-level/senior-level" employees (3+ year experience requirements) at "entry-level" salaries.

Look at it from the perspective of a "career in this organization", not "career of this person". It is an entry level job - it's the lowest tier in their ranking, it's the starting place, it's literally the level where new people enter the organization; it's the lowest paid and least respected position they have, filled with the least experienced and least tenured people in the whole company. It's just that they (wan…

These days your tech career ends at 35, so an average lifetime career lasts 10-12 years.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#20

Post by meaydinli »

williamscales wrote: post #15

If you go to college and do an internship or research fellowship each summer, you will come out with "3 years" of experience.

Is it not mandatory for engineering/CS? I had to do 2 internships for my bachelors, and 1 for my masters.
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