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Ask HN: What obstacles stand in the way for a “bar exam” for programming jobs?

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11–20 of 62 posts

Re: Ask HN: What obstacles stand in the way for a “bar exam” for programming jobs?

#11
Let me answer your question with another question.

What prevents a bar exam for reading and writing?

Would it be a good idea for such a thing to exist for the act of reading or writing books, news, or anything else involving language?

Why should this be treated any differently for speaking to a computer?

Re: Ask HN: What obstacles stand in the way for a “bar exam” for programming jobs?

#12

Why do you think that increasing the barriers of entry into software work is a good idea?

Software that could kill. Medical, aerospace, driverless?

That is a small subset of software.

The vast majority of software written today has precisely 0 ability to kill anyone.

Even IF you are working at a company doing one of those things, only a subset of engineers that are working there are going to working on the "core" part of the software. Those companies have lots of web developers making code that isn't dangerous as well.

To put it another way, reading and writing can kill as well. If the person writing the airplane manual screws up, it could kill someone. But does that mean we need a bar exam of writing English?

Re: Ask HN: What obstacles stand in the way for a “bar exam” for programming jobs?

#13
post #10

Why do you think that increasing the barriers of entry into software work is a good idea?

It could raise my wages. Being a doctor was a rather modest middle income wage until the AMA came along to raise barriers to entry.

If you're a software engineer then you are most likely in the top 1% of earners globally so why do you want to spite others trying to start their career, just so you can earn even more?

Re: Ask HN: What obstacles stand in the way for a “bar exam” for programming jobs?

#14
post #7

You would need a professional organisation to lobby for laws, but I don't see engineers in the industry coming together and forming one. Professional organisations were a way to keep people out of a field by requiring them to have the connections or the money to afford the study materials and exam fees. And don't forget continuing education costs as well. This concept would turn away many of the anti-establishment ty…

Credentialism always, always, always exists to serve entrenched interests. For example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16702652

Re: Ask HN: What obstacles stand in the way for a “bar exam” for programming jobs?

#15
The argument that the field is still immature I think is not very convincing. Or in the very least, whatever needs to change is not going to do so within at least the next few decades, because otherwise they would have already done so. Things haven't changed that much, and software engineering is a many many decade long industry at this point. In other words, if you really care about this, push for it now, in your generation, because otherwise you won't be able to pluck from the fruits of the effort until you're already into retirement.

Re: Ask HN: What obstacles stand in the way for a “bar exam” for programming jobs?

#16
I think this is the same question of "Why isn't there a bar exam for medical doctors". "Being qualified" for software requires nothing less than hands-on training.

Until software moves to more apprenticeships/residencies, I'm afraid we stuck in this "infancy" of a field.

Re: Ask HN: What obstacles stand in the way for a “bar exam” for programming jobs?

#18

It's already happened implicitly with the rise & spread of the "technical interview". By rote memorization of a body of knowledge which may or may not be applicable to the job at hand. Given the interchange between employers, these are more alike than different. Why would further formalization be any more valuable than say the Interior Decorator exam and license in Florida?

Professional exams oftentimes cover subjects like ethics, which would undoubtedly help the industry

Is there evidence that people actually act more ethically after taking a class on ethics?

Re: Ask HN: What obstacles stand in the way for a “bar exam” for programming jobs?

#19

I think this is the same question of "Why isn't there a bar exam for medical doctors". "Being qualified" for software requires nothing less than hands-on training. Until software moves to more apprenticeships/residencies, I'm afraid we stuck in this "infancy" of a field.

There are "bar exams" for medical doctors - they take four rounds of USMLE board exams before getting an MD.

Re: Ask HN: What obstacles stand in the way for a “bar exam” for programming jobs?

#20

It's already happened implicitly with the rise & spread of the "technical interview". By rote memorization of a body of knowledge which may or may not be applicable to the job at hand. Given the interchange between employers, these are more alike than different. Why would further formalization be any more valuable than say the Interior Decorator exam and license in Florida?

Professional exams oftentimes cover subjects like ethics, which would undoubtedly help the industry

I doubt that unethical people act unethically because it just never occurred to them to be ethical, and that they would've known better if there was a class.
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