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Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

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Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#81
What did she expect for "professor style"? If I were hand-delivering results and knew it was from a black, asian, or white person in the US, why would I return different results? Someone entering a general query like that probably wants what the common interpretation is. Which is not going to be a black professor. Searching "professor style for black women" returns the results she presumably thinks should be the default for her.

As much as I hate Google, they seem to be delivering exactly what they should. Their job isn't to try to change people's minds, it is to find what they are looking for. What's next? Search for "geek guy" and it's all white. Should we be upset? Someone searching for "geek guy" is probably looking for exactly what Google returns in this case and all the others she highlights.

As far as "black girls"... What kind of results are people expecting? Who is actually searching for black girls? Probably people looking for porn... Why should Google return suboptimal results because you got offended?

Same for "three black teens". It's not Google's fault that so much news is reporting on crime committed containing that phrase. Did she actually check crime statistics? Maybe "three black teens" get mugshots and commit crimes together at a vastly higher rate than "three white teens". Outside of porn, who is searching for this phrase? If you want "clean" and friendly results, try searching "stock photo three black teens".

If anything, this article shows that Google's personalization should detect people that want to search things (that they wouldn't really search for in earnest) in order to be offended then display poor quality results to avoid this "issue".

In truth though, I would imagine that if she and other black women often searched "professor style" then didn't click any results and immediately searched for "professor style for black women" then Google would pick up on their results being suboptimal and change. My guess is that no one actually makes these searches outside of making a political point, so personalization cannot fix it.

Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#82
It's a difficult discussion because if you look at the literature regarding algorithmic fairness, there really is no measure of equality that satisfies all notions of fairness. If you force representation of seemingly underrepresented patterns in the data then you implicitly engage in social engineering.

This might be legitimate and reasonable, but you probably should be transparent about the fact that you "unbiased" your data by externally imposing a certain view of what the "fair" data should look like.

Ultimately it's a discussion for social scientists or laywers concerned with discrimination, it's not really in the realm of being fixable by engineering or computer science imho.

Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#83
post #14

I like the underlying question that the author brings up - what's google algorithm, and who's responsible for it? In the old days it was "most linked page with those keywords," right? So if you searched "gay man" and got a bunch of gay porn, is it necessarily google's fault that the internet is more gay porn that it is resources for gay men to discuss LGBT issues? Is it google's fault that news agencies more typicall…

>I think Google is responsible in 2018, now that they offer extremely tailored results. Duckduckgo, maybe not. But if Google is going to say "we're going to show you listings for restaurants in SF in your simple 'restaurants' search because we know you live in SF," I think they should also say "we're going to show you results for LGBT resources when you search for 'gay men' because nothing about your query indicates…

Political correctness and affirmative action are based on the idea that pretending the world is an ideal version of itself will eventually make it that way.

In reality though, the world is a complex place and the ideal pretend version can only be implemented in a carefully controlled environment such as a movie, a theatrical presentation, a video game or a situation where all participants agree to or are pressured into behaving in a way in which that pretend world is real. When the rest of the world leaks in, it is impossible to maintain that pressure on everyone.

About the best we have so far is "safe search" since pornography and obscenity follow fairly regular patterns. Political correctness though is constantly evolving and requires a trained academic to determine if each piece of information should be censored or allowed. Ideally in the future we'll have google glass and advanced AI classifiers constantly scanning our vision and providing us with tape delayed audio of the outside world in order to present the world to us and filter any politically incorrect content 24/7.

For now we have to do it ourselves and ignore any inconvenient facts that may make maintaining the illusion difficult. This constant struggle to deal with cognitive dissonance can be tiresome and one should restrict oneself to heavily moderated news feeds and not using search features for now. To create the carefully controlled virtual world in an interface to the rest of the world such as Google is an overwhelming task because you would need a highly sophisticated trained AI agent to maintain that illusion and to even invent information, such as lists of Nobel award winners from disadvantaged peoples, in order to maintain the illusion.

Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#84
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think Google is responsible in 2018, now that they offer extremely tailored results. Duckduckgo, maybe not. But if Google is going to say "we're going to show you listings for restaurants in SF in your simple 'restaurants' search because we know you live in SF," I think they should also say "we're going to show you results for LGBT resources when you search for 'gay men' because nothing about your query indicates…

Well, it's like the restaurant example. If I search for "restaurants", it shouldn't give me restaurants in Shanghai because that's the city with the largest population. It should give me Northern California, since that's where I live and Google knows that. Similarly, Google might reasonably infer that if someone is searching for their own race, sexuality, or religion, they're probably more interested in information o…

> Similarly, Google might reasonably infer that if someone is searching for their own race, sexuality, or religion, they're probably more interested in information or support groups than porn.

Sure, if they have data to back that assumption up. My interpretation was that the parent commenter wanted them to make assumptions just based on politics, which I think is a bad idea.

Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#85

Google search results reflect what's in use on the web via PageRank and modern PageRank-like approximations. Google and its human staff does not apply human intellect to the problem of sorting, picking, and ranking each search result. Moreover, Google has included "Safe Search" features for several years that would remove these types of results from search. Before we condemn Google for the collective actions of the b…

> Google search results reflect what's in use on the web via PageRank and modern PageRank-like approximations. PageRank is only a fraction of the total inputs to Google search. Once PageRank was described it was subject to being gamed at such a scale that it essentially destroyed the web, ironically making Google that much more a necessity. > Google and its human staff does not apply human intellect to the problem of…

If Google's human inputs have racial bias that is certainly something that should be fixed. DuckDuckGo has safe search on by default.

> That a query for an innocent term such as 'black girls' even with 'safe search off' should not result in a bunch of porn.

I don't know what results the search term 'black girls' should return. If you just search for it, it doesn't return any porn for me. If you're seeing porn, your search results make reflect your search history since Google will customize your results based on your search history. Interesting.

That being said, it should return whatever people are searching for. We must be careful not to cross the line from fixing mistakes to politically correct moral censorship.

Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google search results reflect what's in use on the web via PageRank and modern PageRank-like approximations. PageRank is only a fraction of the total inputs to Google search. Once PageRank was described it was subject to being gamed at such a scale that it essentially destroyed the web, ironically making Google that much more a necessity. > Google and its human staff does not apply human intellect to the problem of…

If Google's human inputs have racial bias that is certainly something that should be fixed. DuckDuckGo has safe search on by default. > That a query for an innocent term such as 'black girls' even with 'safe search off' should not result in a bunch of porn. I don't know what results the search term 'black girls' should return. If you just search for it, it doesn't return any porn for me. If you're seeing porn, your s…

On Google I get the same results as the writer of the article for 'black girls', on Bing I get a bunch of porn. So it looks as if Google has permanently adjusted the results for this particular query.

Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Google's human inputs have racial bias that is certainly something that should be fixed. DuckDuckGo has safe search on by default. > That a query for an innocent term such as 'black girls' even with 'safe search off' should not result in a bunch of porn. I don't know what results the search term 'black girls' should return. If you just search for it, it doesn't return any porn for me. If you're seeing porn, your s…

On Google I get the same results as the writer of the article for 'black girls', on Bing I get a bunch of porn. So it looks as if Google has permanently adjusted the results for this particular query.

I think it's possible we're actually in violent agreement due, in part, to our different result set from Google. Even "incognito mode" doesn't return for me the set of salacious results reported by the author.

Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#88

Google search results reflect what's in use on the web via PageRank and modern PageRank-like approximations. Google and its human staff does not apply human intellect to the problem of sorting, picking, and ranking each search result. Moreover, Google has included "Safe Search" features for several years that would remove these types of results from search. Before we condemn Google for the collective actions of the b…

I think thats basically what Facebook is at the moment, a filter/curation bubble - only jacked up to 1000. What would be IMO useful and more powerful is being able to switch bubbles. Google at the moment has a "no personalization", which is better than only being allowed to access your perspective bubble, but you probably only click on your bubble.

The point should be to slowly break down the bubbles, make them less of an echo chamber, and/or have them merge at points where they can. To anthropomorphize the "perspective" bubbles, we are in the dark ages, where people really don't travel very far from where they are, and they don't even speak the same language from their neighbors a short ways away. Allowing a translator and free exploration of other bubbles could allow for more alliances - the zero sum troll-only interaction is something nearly everyone see's is not helpful.

Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#89

What I took from the article were a few points: * Taking a neutral position when building something (its just a tool, it's making decisions based on an aggregate) IS in fact making a decision. State can be -1, 0, or 1 and neutrality yields a certain result. * The local optima of these algorithms are likely a product of local optima to the people and teams who built them. The neutral position seemed like the correct a…

My takeaway was that algorithmic solutions alone will never be enough since they operate at the core on user intent.

Males searching for “FOOBAR girls” have, on average, different intent than women. If they represent the majority of searches, algorithms will naturally weigh the results they click more highly.

Hyper personalization is seen as an answer, but comes with the downside of a reinforcing bubble and drift to extremes. Human intervention and editing are only a partial solution, bringing up further questions about censorship and which ideology is correct.

No easy answers to all of this.

Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#90
post #34

Try searching Google Images for "brazilian". Her point is quite valid, and also well recognized in at least some part of the tech industry: when you "blindly" optimize for a certain audience, you risk picking up the biases of that audience. So, if you want to appeal to a broader audience than your current one, you might need to manually tune your system to remove some of the biases from your original audience. This i…

Wow, those results are so different from Bing Images for the same search.

Yeah, the Bing results are much better IMO, I wonder if MS solved this problem?
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