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Are you ready? This is all the data Facebook and Google have on you

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Re: Are you ready? This is all the data Facebook and Google have on you

#151
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is typical. As a techie, you're triggered by technical detail because you understand the technical details of that example that is intended to illustrate the size of the data collected. Rest assured that this happens all the time and when people read news about a topic that they are an expert on, they cringe all the time. For example, a paraglider pilot will get triggered if the reporter uses the word "Jumped" i…

The word "triggered" should really be reserved for military vets and those who have experienced traumatic events in their past that would cause severe distress, not as a synonym for "annoyed." A veteran who relives the horrors of war when fireworks go off is not nearly in the same space as a developer who is annoyed that someone misused technical jargon.

> The word "triggered" should really be reserved for military vets

Certainly not. While many military personal certainly have faced mind-altering situations, they are far from the only ones who have ever suffered from traumatic events.

Children and Women are the subjects of the most twisted and abusive stories I've ever been able to fathom.

Re: Are you ready? This is all the data Facebook and Google have on you

#152
post #4

But I willingly give my data to Google - they have (for some reason or another) kept my trust. Facebook broke my trust with data I didn't know they had collected.

What data does Facebook have on you that Google doesn’t collect? Google buys your credit card purchase data. Did you give it that? Why do you think Google wants you to stay logged into Chrome? Let’s be honest here and call a spade a spade. The world is just realizing how ads based business models work and there’s no difference between Google and Facebook.

> Google buys your credit card purchase data.

A more accurate explanation of the scare quote:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16698587

> IIRC, this was announced as part of a program that uses double-blinded crypto that allows google to perform matching against this data in aggregate (Set intersection knowledge), but not individually identity of what a given user purchased, at the same time preventing the merchants from learning the identities of individuals either.

> According to what they presented at a crypto conference, they went to great pains to avoid capturing personally identifiable transactions. The overall strategy is that Google Knows = Set A = (all ads shown for user X at Merchant Y) Merchant/Credit Card Proccessor Knows = Set B = (all $$$ paid by User X at Merchant Y), and that it is possible to cryptographically compute sum($$$ of A intersect B) without either side learning Set(User X).

> Now whether you believe in the security of the algorithm and whether there are side channel leaks or attacks is another issue.

> Edit: http://bristolcrypto.blogspot.com/2017/01/rwc-2017-secure-mp...

> About 10 minutes in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee7oRsDnNNc

Re: Are you ready? This is all the data Facebook and Google have on you

#153
post #98

This is nonsensical: > The data Google has on you can fill millions of Word documents. > Google offers an option to download all of the data it stores about you. I’ve requested to download it and the file is 5.5GB big, which is roughly 3m Word documents. This link [Google Takeout] includes your bookmarks, emails, contacts, your Google Drive files, all of the above information, your YouTube videos, the photos you’ve t…

This is typical. As a techie, you're triggered by technical detail because you understand the technical details of that example that is intended to illustrate the size of the data collected. Rest assured that this happens all the time and when people read news about a topic that they are an expert on, they cringe all the time. For example, a paraglider pilot will get triggered if the reporter uses the word "Jumped" i…

related: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/65213-briefly-stated-the-ge...

“Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray's case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the "wet streets cause rain" stories. Paper's full of them. In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.”

Re: Are you ready? This is all the data Facebook and Google have on you

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word "triggered" should really be reserved for military vets and those who have experienced traumatic events in their past that would cause severe distress, not as a synonym for "annoyed." A veteran who relives the horrors of war when fireworks go off is not nearly in the same space as a developer who is annoyed that someone misused technical jargon.

> The word "triggered" should really be reserved for military vets Certainly not. While many military personal certainly have faced mind-altering situations, they are far from the only ones who have ever suffered from traumatic events. Children and Women are the subjects of the most twisted and abusive stories I've ever been able to fathom.

[deleted]

Re: Are you ready? This is all the data Facebook and Google have on you

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that major companies don't have systems to mitigate this threat?

None that are invulernable to an APT or an inside attack. Saying "I trust company X with my data" is the same as saying "I trust that company X cannot be hacked". "There are two types of companies: those that have been hacked, and those who don't know they have been hacked." -John Chambers

>Saying "I trust company X with my data" is the same as saying "I trust that company X cannot be hacked".

No it is not, and it's also why I didn't reply at first because I had a feeling it would go down this path.

I don't believe for a second that my data will never be "hacked" at Google (for whatever definition you want to think of for "hacked"). But I do believe that Google has done their due diligence in preventing that kind of attack to the fullest extent they can, they give me the tools to remove data that I want removed, they are competent in their architecture to make leaks and hacks have limited scope, and i'm confident that they will be able to uncover evidence of "hacking" and will use the legal system to go after those responsible limiting the damage that a "hack" can do.

I enjoy the benefits I get from Google. I like that they scrape my email for calendar info, flight info, package info, etc... I like that they track my location and create automatic albums for pictures I take (and upload to them) while at a location. I like that they can get location indoors using wifi APs or that they use my voice in ML training to improve the product, or that they offer me relevant ads to pay for those free services and products instead of ads that have little or nothing to do with my interests. I like that I can go back and search my hangouts (then google talk) chats from my friends from over a decade ago, or that they backup my files that i put on google drive, or that they record what apps are on my phone (and some data from those apps) so that if I need a new phone I can quickly set everything back up, or that they store saved passwords on their servers so that I can easily get the same ones on multiple devices, I like that my reviews of apps/places can have my name and face put on them and that reviews from my family and friends show up over random people online, etc... And I especially like that I get most of this for no effort on my part. No servers to maintain, no software to setup and manage, no security needed on my part aside from keeping my username, password, and second factor auth secure. I only have a limited time on this planet, and I don't want to spend it setting up private email, storage, photo backup utilities, and whatever else that I get "for free" through Google services.

I'm not being tricked here, i'm not "missing something" or pretending that these companies are infallible. I'm making a consensus decision to trade information about myself to a company I trust for tangible benefits. If that company becomes untrustworthy, then I will adjust my feelings and behaviors, and I will most likely be hurt by it at some point (because you can't un-give information, especially not to a bad actor), but again that's a risk i'm willing to take.

I don't know why I typed all this out, and I don't mean to target it all at you personally, just at the boogeyman I've built up in my head of "internet person telling me i'm dumb for trusting a company". It's exhausting constantly having to defend against what-if's because I want webmail, or being constantly berated and insulted for making tradeoffs with my own privacy like it's some kind of personal insult to people that I am not as private as they are (there's nothing wrong with privacy, I advocate for it quite a lot, but your whole life doesn't need to be private all the time, i'm happy to share some aspects!).

Re: Are you ready? This is all the data Facebook and Google have on you

#156
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is typical. As a techie, you're triggered by technical detail because you understand the technical details of that example that is intended to illustrate the size of the data collected. Rest assured that this happens all the time and when people read news about a topic that they are an expert on, they cringe all the time. For example, a paraglider pilot will get triggered if the reporter uses the word "Jumped" i…

The word "triggered" should really be reserved for military vets and those who have experienced traumatic events in their past that would cause severe distress, not as a synonym for "annoyed." A veteran who relives the horrors of war when fireworks go off is not nearly in the same space as a developer who is annoyed that someone misused technical jargon.

[deleted]

Re: Are you ready? This is all the data Facebook and Google have on you

#157
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people don't know they are granting permissions. when you provision a new android device it will try to link your account to chrone, and its very hard even for a developer to catch its chrome and not android os. after that small mistake (which is an optout in the ui pattern) its game over. google have all your history and every webview ad has your full profile. not to mention your web bank passwords are now convenien…

"passwords are now conveniently save in google servers in plain text" Do you have a citation for this?

Not the parent, but here is where they store your chrome passwords: https://passwords.google.com

Re: Are you ready? This is all the data Facebook and Google have on you

#158
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is typical. As a techie, you're triggered by technical detail because you understand the technical details of that example that is intended to illustrate the size of the data collected. Rest assured that this happens all the time and when people read news about a topic that they are an expert on, they cringe all the time. For example, a paraglider pilot will get triggered if the reporter uses the word "Jumped" i…

The word "triggered" should really be reserved for military vets and those who have experienced traumatic events in their past that would cause severe distress, not as a synonym for "annoyed." A veteran who relives the horrors of war when fireworks go off is not nearly in the same space as a developer who is annoyed that someone misused technical jargon.

At least people misusing the word "triggered" provide a good signal that they're posting in bad faith. :)

Re: Are you ready? This is all the data Facebook and Google have on you

#159
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is typical. As a techie, you're triggered by technical detail because you understand the technical details of that example that is intended to illustrate the size of the data collected. Rest assured that this happens all the time and when people read news about a topic that they are an expert on, they cringe all the time. For example, a paraglider pilot will get triggered if the reporter uses the word "Jumped" i…

Is it really the responsibility of a journalist to hold the hand of people not well versed in the topic at the expense of technical correctness? I don't think so, I'd prefer we hold a standard of being correct and put the onus of education on the readers. They can Google what they don't understand. We can educate the public better to not be afraid of technical details. I agree with danarmak, this piece like so many o…

>You should know what you're signing up for, nobody should be surprised by anything in there.

I agree.

People will deal with this responsibility the way they deal with any other responsibility that an individual faces.

- Ignore it. Go on hoping that it doesn't affect them. Hoping that someone more capable is looking into it and will stop these companies from doing the wrong thing.

- Realize the significance of what they are agreeing to, and try to deal with it. They may find themselves hopelessly inadequate to deal with the might of Google/Facebook/Amazon/Twitter/Microsoft/Reddit. They may decide to be a monk going into hiding in the woods of no social presence, or they would try to live with the risk while realizing that the risk is always going to be there.

- Realize that the risk they knew about has materialized. They would realize that it has gone way beyond their respective abilities to handle it as an individual. They would try to band together and demand change. Class action lawsuits, and legal restrictions. We stopped telecom companies, credit card companies, mortgage companies, electrical, water, gas utilities from doing certain things as part of the law of the land. Internet services like Google/Amazon/Microsoft/Facebook/Twitter can get regulated.

- Outsource the responsibility. Consumer Protection Boards. Regulatory bodies. Auditors. Laws with punishment to get desired behavior.

I was surprised by the position of Google/Facebook/Amazon/Twitter/Microsoft/Reddit/Netflix on Net Neutrality, just the sheet hypocrisy of it.

They jumped up and down about an ISP possibly deteriorating the user experience for monetary gains. While they have been applying their powers for anything they wish, including political gains and psyops, not just monetary gains but power.

Why isn't Canadian Human Rights commissions jumping up and down over YouTube and Twitter accounts being silenced?

Baker should bake the cake but YouTube shouldn't show the video? I guess, the Baker should simply come up with community guidelines and call it a day.

This is too funny.

Re: Are you ready? This is all the data Facebook and Google have on you

#160
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is typical. As a techie, you're triggered by technical detail because you understand the technical details of that example that is intended to illustrate the size of the data collected. Rest assured that this happens all the time and when people read news about a topic that they are an expert on, they cringe all the time. For example, a paraglider pilot will get triggered if the reporter uses the word "Jumped" i…

related: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/65213-briefly-stated-the-ge... “Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray's case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the…

Thank you for that!
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