Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does this not apply, in any way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_copyright#History_of_... I don't understand how this is never brought up with regard to API copyright. API's are software, software has been deemed copyright-able, thus, API's are copyright-able. Am I going crazy or missing something?
Many commentators on this thread are desperate to come to the opposite conclusion despite the clear case law on this question.
Oracle Wins Revival of Billion-Dollar Case Against Google
601–610 of 643 posts
Re: Oracle Wins Revival of Billion-Dollar Case Against Google
#602Earlier quoted context omitted.
The district court found APIs to not be copyrightable. The Federal Circuit disagreed, and ordered the district court to hold a trial under the assumption that APIs are copyrightable—that's when Google's fair use defense became necessary. That Federal Circuit decision has not been reviewed by the Supreme Court, does not establish binding precedent outside the context of this case, and is widely seen by outsiders as be…
> That Federal Circuit decision has not been reviewed by the Supreme Court, does not establish binding precedent outside the context of this case, The Supreme Court need not weigh in in order to make the law what it is.
Re: Oracle Wins Revival of Billion-Dollar Case Against Google
#603Earlier quoted context omitted.
[cynical comment] Do you think the court is trying to guarantee jobs for lawyers?
That lawyers exist is a good thing. It means we have a human, nuanced perspective on the finer points and interpretation of the law, which in Western civilization reigns supreme over all other things. Lawyers will never become obsolete until we no longer live in a society that obeys the rule of law.
I think the core problem is that this misinterpets the phrase "rule of law", which Google defines as "the restriction of the arbitrary exercise of power by subordinating it to well-defined and established laws."
If your lawyer's arguments, preparation, and skill matter, or if it matters whether you have a lawyer or not, then you are being subject to "arbitrary interpretation" of the legal landscape, rather than to well-defined and established (and understood) law.
Your /lawyer's/ actions affect the judgment, rather than just your actions.
Re: Oracle Wins Revival of Billion-Dollar Case Against Google
#604Earlier quoted context omitted.
By that logic WINE shouldn't be allowed to exist either, since it copies Windows' API. Copying APIs is strictly necessary for interoperability. Allowing APIs to be copyrightable encourages monopolies by legally prohibiting newcomers' software from being compatible with their competition. It'd be like if Microsoft were allowed to sue Google Docs and Libreoffice for making their software able to open Word documents. (E…
I'm not sure how WINE works. But I just don't see that being the case. All WINE has to do is capture the API calls and transform them into a different WINE API call that ends up performing the same function and then proceed with zero copyright issues.
So... you're saying it needs to implement the Windows API? If APIs are copyrightable, then that's a violation of Microsoft's copyright. You've included a copy of Windows' API in WINE.
Re: Oracle Wins Revival of Billion-Dollar Case Against Google
#605Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's a lot of similar responses regarding the API copyright issue. APIs have been 'subject to copyright' for 4 years, since the 2014 decision in this case. Lets see some key details: This is the 2012 ruling: http://www.groklaw.net/pdf3/OraGoogle-1202.pdf Alsup indicates that SSO isn't dead law, but finds that APIs aren't copyrightable because they are 'the only one way to write" things to get the key functionality…
How does this not apply, in any way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_copyright#History_of_... I don't understand how this is never brought up with regard to API copyright. API's are software, software has been deemed copyright-able, thus, API's are copyright-able. Am I going crazy or missing something?
This is, essentially, the fallacy of division.
Interfaces to software have been rules non-copyrightable despite being an element of software and thr software itself being copyrightable; this is particularly the case for user interfaces (Lotus v. Borland is the landmark case here.)
There have been many comments from the legal community, including, IIRC, judges that sit on the 9th Circuit, that the Federal Circuit (which heard this case on appeal because of the patent claims in it) has misapplied binding Ninth Circuit precedent (which is supposed to control on coypright issues in this case because this came up from a district court under the 9th Circuit, and copyright law is not one of the areas where the Federal Circuit has exclusive subject matter jurisdiction.)
Re: Oracle Wins Revival of Billion-Dollar Case Against Google
#606Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not weird, either. What would have been weird is a finding that they're not copyrightable, given that it would have been completely at odds with the statutes and case law we have concerning copyright. The point is, nuance matters. If you're physically attacked and defend yourself in a way where you end up killing the guy, you claim that your actions were justified. You don't go to court claiming that killing p…
> Here's how this case should go [...] > And by every indication, we're right on track. You're leaving out the step where the district court found that APIs aren't copyrightable, but the district court was overruled by an appeals court that normally has no right to rule on such matters and does not set binding precedent on such matters. If Oracle's now-dead patent claims hadn't been included in their original complai…
Second: That's a stretch. To argue that the case would have stopped at the Ninth Circuit is to argue that because the Supreme Court denied Google's petition to reverse the Federal Circuit, then they would have denied Oracle's petition to reverse the Ninth Circuit. That's a junk argument.
Re: Oracle Wins Revival of Billion-Dollar Case Against Google
#607Earlier quoted context omitted.
[cynical comment] Do you think the court is trying to guarantee jobs for lawyers?
That lawyers exist is a good thing. It means we have a human, nuanced perspective on the finer points and interpretation of the law, which in Western civilization reigns supreme over all other things. Lawyers will never become obsolete until we no longer live in a society that obeys the rule of law.
In reality, "defining the spec" is the entire purpose of having a legal system in the first place. A nation is a machine that is evolving its own state. There's no outside "programmer" who can observe and define the entirety of the desired state. (Unless you believe in an active interested conception of God, perhaps.)
The legislators, lawyers, and judges who tell us what the law is, are part of society too--and that's why the law changes over time. It's supposed to change over time. The law constrains human behavior, but it also reflects human behavior, so the state of what's legal right now exists in a weird state of superposition between the two.
But, the fantasy that one is outside of, or separate from, society is a popular one--seen most clearly expressed in the libertarian creed, but popular in Silicon Valley too, at least from a business perspective. What do most tech companies want from the government? To stay the heck out of their business, stay far away, and don't bother me. That includes lawyers.
So you're going to get downvoted here, but I don't think that means you're wrong.
Re: Oracle Wins Revival of Billion-Dollar Case Against Google
#608Earlier quoted context omitted.
SavaJe went bankrupt two years before Android was released.
And who bought their assets? Sun.
Sun buying SavaJe was pretty clearly a response to Android, so it's pretty disingenuous to say that Android killed SavaJe.
Re: Oracle Wins Revival of Billion-Dollar Case Against Google
#609Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except it is the law now and then that APIs aren't copyrightable according to the court that's generally supposed to handle such things, in this instance The US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. They've ruled plenty of times on the matter, and have developed decades of case law stating that implementing APIs is totally kosher. Sony v. Bleem is great example. There the appeals court ruled that not only could Ble…
>not only could Bleem ship a PS1 emulator with reverse engineered APIs of the kernel Not all types of reverse engineering is considered copying. See IBM PC BIOS cases.