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GIMP 2.10.0 Release Candidate 1 Released

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Re: GIMP 2.10.0 Release Candidate 1 Released

#151

Post by Joeboy »

prokoudine wrote: post #148
Joeboy wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I think GIMP has this "open source best in class" status that it maybe deserved ~20 years ago but now it's kind of punching above its weight in terms of popularity. That said, I actually think the current devs are doing good work, usability has totally improved and I'm somewhat optimistic that once this big, important, multi-year development branch is out of the door we'll see continued improvements.

Can't reply to your other comment about WONTFIX for MDI, because the thread went too deep. I get your point about having to wait for 7 years, but let's just scroll down to the bottom: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7379#c118 "...we should finally close this report as WONTFIX. This has been discussed to dead and there are plans for a user interface that will solve the problems that the MDI approach is supp…

Fair enough, although I'll counter that GIMP didn't actually get single-window mode until 2011 (a full 10 years after that bug report), and it seems like the GIMP devs spent a lot of the intervening period trying to claim lack of single-window mode as a feature.

Like I say, ancient history now. But some of us are good at holding onto grudges :-)

Re: GIMP 2.10.0 Release Candidate 1 Released

#152

Post by prokoudine »

gilrain wrote: post #69
callahad wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's a completely legitimate response. Krita is targeted at artists and illustrators, just like any other specialized tool. People don't look at Vim and complain that lacks desktop publishing features, despite novelists and programmers both needing to manipulate text. The original complaint regarded tools for artists, and that's Krita. For photographers, there's DarkTable ( https://www.darktable.org/ ), RawTher…

And when we complain about usability issues and lack of features in those programs (such as GIMP!), we're told that there are lots of open source alternatives; for instance, look how slick Krita is! And thus the cyclical debate continues for another turn while a competitive raster editor remains unavailable in the open source ecosystem.

No, when you complain about usability issues in GIMP to _me_, I actually listen and make notes. Some of these notes end up in the bug tracker.

But not, and I repeat -- not when complaints are made in demanding and offensive tone, without providing useful feedback.

Re: GIMP 2.10.0 Release Candidate 1 Released

#153

Post by prokoudine »

nkkollaw wrote: post #115
slantyyz wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is GimpShop still actively maintained to keep up with the latest Gimp (the Gimpshot site is a little vague on these details)? Didn't that provide a decent migration path for PhotoShop users to GIMP?

Looks like it's not maintained anymore, and gimpshop.com is a scam website from someone else (looks like, I might be wrong).

Yep, it _is_ a scam website now. The previous owner lost it and then failed to get it back.

Re: GIMP 2.10.0 Release Candidate 1 Released

#154

Post by nkkollaw »

prokoudine wrote: post #140
nkkollaw wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are _you_ paying attention (your tone is absolutely horrible, by the way)? I'm saying that I doubt the project's priorities are in line with those of its users. Are you sure that performance is a problem for most users? I have talked to people about GIMP before, and it came out 0 times, while usability was the problem that forced most people to install Photoshop or go back to Windows. In the past 3 days, I've opened…

> Are _you_ paying attention (your tone is absolutely horrible, by the way)? I'm saying that I doubt the project's priorities are in line with those of its users. You don't like my tone, and I don't like your inability to process basic information written in clear English in the first two paragraphs of an article that you are discussing, followed by making ridiculous offensive statements. Are we even? > Are you sure…

Whatever, man.

If you're part of the project, your attitude is exactly what I'm talking about, so thanks for reinforcing my convictions.

If you're not, since I'm unable to process basic information I wouldn't want to waste your time.

Let's call it a day.

Re: GIMP 2.10.0 Release Candidate 1 Released

#155

Post by prokoudine »

callahad wrote: post #149
prokoudine wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Krita ( https://krita.org ) is 12 years old No, it's not :) "At the 31st of May, 1999, the KImageShop project officially kicked off with a mail by Matthias Elter." From the very website you linked to :)

Hah! I blame the Wikipedia sidebar, which claims the initial release was 21st June, 2005: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krita :)

Yeah, Krita's naming history is a tad convoluted.

Still, a truly amazing project.

Re: GIMP 2.10.0 Release Candidate 1 Released

#156

Post by prokoudine »

nkkollaw wrote: post #154
prokoudine wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are _you_ paying attention (your tone is absolutely horrible, by the way)? I'm saying that I doubt the project's priorities are in line with those of its users. You don't like my tone, and I don't like your inability to process basic information written in clear English in the first two paragraphs of an article that you are discussing, followed by making ridiculous offensive statements. Are we even? > Are you sure…

Whatever, man. If you're part of the project, your attitude is exactly what I'm talking about, so thanks for reinforcing my convictions. If you're not, since I'm unable to process basic information I wouldn't want to waste your time. Let's call it a day.

Yes, as project's contributor I find your claims blatantly inaccurate and offensive. That said, my way of handling them is most likely far from being humble.

Re: GIMP 2.10.0 Release Candidate 1 Released

#157

Post by prokoudine »

gilrain wrote: post #49
staticelf wrote: post #10

Not really about GIMP but for people who look for an alternative to Photoshop, I can really recommend Affinity Photo. It's actually on a sale right now on Windows Store at least. Unfortunately it doesn't support Linux like GIMP does but it's a really viable alternative to Photoshop for Mac/Windows users. I used to pay for Photoshop, but it's so darn expensive and I even had to pay to get out of my subscription plan.…

Affinity is a fantastic alternative to Photoshop, GIMP, or any other raster manipulation program focused on photos. I'd like to back up this recommendation: for the (one-time) price, it's amazing. I don't miss anything from Photoshop, and the UI is incredibly effective and consistent. I guess the people in this thread are only interested in open source alternatives, because I can't imagine anyone objecting to it on i…

I don't get why you are being downvoted. Affinity Photo is fantastic software.

Re: GIMP 2.10.0 Release Candidate 1 Released

#158

Post by nkkollaw »

prokoudine wrote: post #156
nkkollaw wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever, man. If you're part of the project, your attitude is exactly what I'm talking about, so thanks for reinforcing my convictions. If you're not, since I'm unable to process basic information I wouldn't want to waste your time. Let's call it a day.

Yes, as project's contributor I find your claims blatantly inaccurate and offensive. That said, my way of handling them is most likely far from being humble.

> Yes, as project's contributor I find your claims blatantly inaccurate and offensive

That's funny. They can't be inaccurate, because I'm talking about my personal experience using the software.

As for offending, I never even talked about anyone--just the project, and you are the one who's offended me personally by saying that I should get a grip of myself, I don't understand basic concepts in English, etc. etc.--which let me tell you doesn't look that good for GIMP as a project.

This is how many open source projects handle criticism. I've seen this before, and I'm not surprised. Like I said, thanks for reinforcing the conviction I have that many projects stay in their silos and don't listen to users--to say it nicely--because they don't owe them anything (which of course it's true, but still).

Regular users have no idea how to or have the willingness to get in touch with you, they'll just uninstall and move on. When someone in the middle like me does offer criticism, he doesn't understand basic concepts explained clearly to him--like you said--so obviously there's no solution.

> That said, my way of handling them is most likely far from being humble.

I guess we agree on this one (yay!)

Re: GIMP 2.10.0 Release Candidate 1 Released

#159

Post by epidemian »

prokoudine wrote: post #126
fvdessen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you genuinely think that the GIMP developers don't want or don't try to make it usable or to improve it as much as they can? Ten years ago they made a call to artists to find out what they could improve, then didn't like the feedback they got and told the artists they were wrong. I guess that's how they got such a user hostile reputation.

"Ten years ago they made a call to artists to find out what they could improve, then didn't like the feedback they got and told the artists they were wrong." You won't be able to prove this claim, because you made that up :)

Thanks. I was really disappointed about the replies to my message. Because just claiming that "yes, they do not care, it's a fact", doesn't make it a fact. No links provided. Nothing.

(In case someone wonders what's the evidence for claiming that the GIMP devs do actually care about the project: the evidence is the release itself. People don't volunteer to working on FOSS software and not care about the software or its users ;) )

Re: GIMP 2.10.0 Release Candidate 1 Released

#160

Post by prokoudine »

nkkollaw wrote: post #158
prokoudine wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, as project's contributor I find your claims blatantly inaccurate and offensive. That said, my way of handling them is most likely far from being humble.

> Yes, as project's contributor I find your claims blatantly inaccurate and offensive That's funny. They can't be inaccurate, because I'm talking about my personal experience using the software. As for offending, I never even talked about anyone--just the project, and you are the one who's offended me personally by saying that I should get a grip of myself, I don't understand basic concepts in English, etc. etc.--whi…

> This is how many open source projects handle criticism.

No, this is how some projects handle bullshit.

Criticism is fine and even useful.

Lemme explain the difference, because you are still not taking a grip on yourself.

When you think developers introduced a regression and refuse to fix it, and you can use arguments other than 'because I said so' to prove your point — this is criticism.

When you completely disregard all explanations why a certain feature was added, when you completely dismiss people pointing out that no, in fact other software has the same feature, and people do use it, then continue arguing ad nauseam — this is bullshit.

Got it? Good.

Now, you can be constructive and pay attention, and then we can have a conversation, or you can continue dismissing facts and go on living in an echo chamber. Your choice.

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