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Facebook's Zuckerberg will not appear before British MPs

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Facebook's Zuckerberg will not appear before British MPs

#111

Mark was invited and he declined. What's really wrong with that? His wisdom and personal belief (including legal and lawyer suggestions) tells him that coming over to the invitation would not do him (nor his company) any good. And, given with all the information he has supposedly with people, he may already have some knowledge of the personality of the MPs who are going to grill him that he may think otherwise that a…

Legally speaking, there might not be anything wrong with it.

Practically speaking, he just snubbed an influential, cross-party group of MPs, and the House of Commons where those MPs and their colleagues sit has the closest thing to absolute power that exists within our legal system.

These are people who could pass emergency legislation imposing a windfall tax on Facebook amounting to 100% of everything it does or owns in UK territory and authorising HMRC to immediately seize assets accordingly. They could pass laws requiring all UK-based ISPs to filter Facebook traffic any way they want. They could pass laws imposing an extremely privacy-focussed data protection regime, even more so than the GDPR that is already due to come into effect in a couple of months.

Now, obviously such extreme reactions are unlikely in response to this snub, even given the history here. But there is a whole scale of possible responses to Facebook's current situation, and large fines and/or some of the people involved actually going to prison are not out of the question. Tempting fate may not be the smartest business move Facebook could make.

Re: Facebook's Zuckerberg will not appear before British MPs

#112

> "You have a wealthy company from a developed nation going into an economy or democracy that's still struggling to get its feet on the ground - and taking advantage of that to profit from that," he told MPs. Christopher Wylie (ex-Facebook whistleblower) just gave the primary reason why Facebook is blocked in China.

>> "You have a wealthy company from a developed nation going into an economy or democracy that's still struggling to get its feet on the ground - and taking advantage of that to profit from that," he told MPs. > Christopher Wylie (ex-Facebook whistleblower) just gave the primary reason why Facebook is blocked in China. No. China isn't a "democracy that's still struggling to get its feet on the ground," China is a cou…

So you think the Chinese government's motivation for protectionism is purely because they are undemocratic evil-doers hell-bent on preserving their power.

I disagree and believe they have other motivations behind protectionism, limiting democracy, and authoritarianism.

It seems you probably don't have background in Chinese history. There was a period pre-WWII where China was divvied up by colonial powers and humiliated in defeats for over a century (primarily due to a weak navy). The country was addicted at that time not to Facebook but to opium, which was imposed upon by foreign influence. Both nationalist and communist parties recognized this and vowed to unify and expel foreign power. The communists ended up essentially winning, but the legacy of weariness towards foreign influence persisted.

I can assure you the #1 and #2 things in China's mind when banning facebook and google are to #1 prevent a backdoor for the US into massive data collection and #2 nurture homegrown technology companies to prevent spilling wealth out. You might consider #2 to be unfair, but you'd also have to consider that the US was a fully developed economy, and China's developing economy would not be fairly competing against foreign tech companies. The decision has nothing to do with free speech as facebook would simply have to comply with local laws and would have gladly censored at the request of China—but that wasn't the issue.

That being said, protectionism isn't exclusive to China. It's adopted heavily in Japan too, as well as in the US. You can't really argue for or against it as it's a matter of sovereign policy as foreign citizens do not have a natural right to exploit a sovereign market.

Regarding democracy and authoritarianism, keep in mind the the country was super poor and uneducated. Ceding power democratically across the country would have probably resulted in massive corruption. The country is not a dictatorship though, but it is governed by a subset of the population who are communist party members. While they probably want to keep power to themselves, they'll also in theory be better governors than the general public.

Believe it or not the population of China overwhelmingly supports their government. The authority and legitimacy of a government does not come from democracy per se (nor from opinions of people half-way around the world), but from the people. Democracy is a great way to represent the power of the people, but as long as the population approves and delegates power to the government (by not rebelling), then it has legitimacy.

So no there's no democracy, but if they did have a vote right now the people would side with their government, and not the poorly informed foreign distant opinions from people like yourself. It just so happens their form of government does not delegate decisions of governance at the same granularity to the people as we do in America, but then again we don't have much granularity either through our representative form of government (we don't even pick the president!).

They pick their premier through rules of the communist party. We pick our president through a set of complex rules masking the fact that an electoral college actually selects the president (with things like super-delegates, which were enacted to reduce the power of the average voter since one election the democratically elected candidate didn't satisfy the DNC party expectations). In the end they have one party, we have only two real parties. There's not much difference except we directly elect a few more representatives than they do.

Re: Facebook's Zuckerberg will not appear before British MPs

#114
This is the ultimate act of Silicon Valley arrogance, at it will backfire hard.

Not just on Facebook, and not just in the UK. This crosses a line all democratic nations in which SV companies have significant interests and even more significant influence will take note of.

SV and apparently large parts of HN are completely delusional if they think this won't have serious consequences.

Re: Facebook's Zuckerberg will not appear before British MPs

#115
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We'll have to witness some hapless middle-manager undergo the same circus According to The Guardian, Facebook said that "the company would be putting forward its chief technology officer, Mike Schroepfer, or its chief product officer, Chris Cox." https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/27/facebook-...

It's no secret that Zukerberg is not very charismatic; IMO he looks kinda rehearsed and scared when he speaks in public. Cox and Schroepfer both seem more comfortable in front of cameras from what I can find online, and to be honest would probably have better insight into what happened. After all, it's their jobs as the heads of product, and technology.

I think he's autistic personally, or getting close to it on the spectrum. He embodies a lot of the traits. His personality in public reminds me a lot of Connor McDavid, who I also suspect.

Re: Facebook's Zuckerberg will not appear before British MPs

#116
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm old enough to remember the 1993 Jack in the Box e. coli outbreak... and then fast-forward to Chipotle's 2015 handling of the same thing. The responses between then and now were staggering differently. Back then it was "deny, deny, deny". In today's PR conscious world - for better or worse - the people expect an immediate confession from the very top. Given's FB's breadth and depth of exposure to many people's liv…

Perhaps this is a form of karma. After all, the change in how PR works today compared to last century has a lot to do with the rise of social media and 24 hour news cycles.

The irony of Zuckerberg responding to this spectacle in an entirely old-school and 20th century way, blind to how the social media landscape has changed PR.

Re: Facebook's Zuckerberg will not appear before British MPs

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the UK Parliament are well in their rights to summon, and expect attendance, of Zukerberg over this But they aren't within their rights to summon him. That's not a power they have. They can invite him, and they did, but he doesn't have to go and speak to a committee if he doesn't want to.

I believe they (select committees) can compel witnesses within the UK so visiting the UK might be a problem. Its never been done recently - though god knows what old laws are still on the books that could be applied.

Can the Queen order his execution?

Re: Facebook's Zuckerberg will not appear before British MPs

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brexit is relevant, because like the election of Trump, it appears nefarious actors (likely Russians in both cases) used Facebook to drive votes in a particular direction (pro-Trump, pro-Brexit).

Some people posted fake content on Facebook? And that is responsible for the election of Trump and Brexit? If you actually believe that there's some pop up internet ads I have ready for you...

Responsible on it's own? Likely not. A contributing factor? I believe the jury is still out.

Either way, the simple existence of the tools to do so (via social media and data-crunching groups like CA) should be investigated. And governments rightly should take action to ensure "fake news" is not being used to subvert their elections.

Re: Facebook's Zuckerberg will not appear before British MPs

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe they (select committees) can compel witnesses within the UK so visiting the UK might be a problem. Its never been done recently - though god knows what old laws are still on the books that could be applied.

Can the Queen order his execution?

Well the UK abolished the death penalty for all crimes.

I think acts of attainder (ie your are declared guilty by parliament with out judicial process ) is not longer leagal

The act of attainder was considered so bad that was banned by the founders in the US constitution.

Re: Facebook's Zuckerberg will not appear before British MPs

#120
post #34
post #28

This was obviously never going to happen and is absolutely the right decision for Zuckerberg and Facebook. House of Commons select committees bagging a big scalp invariably turn into show trials, with MPs possessing a completely deluded sense of their own insight into a subject queuing up to play to the cameras. The spectacle of having Zuckerberg there would have been absolutely excruciating. So, much as I'd like to…

So really not that much different than US Congress where he's still potentially going to appear?

> still potentially going to appear

...and if I were a betting man, "not going to appear."

Zuckerburg's strength is not PR or public conversations. It makes zero sense to me why he would represent Facebook to US Congress.

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