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'The Gig Economy' Is the New Term for Serfdom

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Re: 'The Gig Economy' Is the New Term for Serfdom

#31

Post by Agebor »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #20
shusson wrote: post #7

> Travis Kalanick, the former CEO of Uber and one of the founders, has a net worth of $4.8 billion. I agree that the working conditions of workers should improve but I never understand the comparison to the value of CEOs. Travis Kalanick isn't sleeping on $4.8 billion, it's in the economy.

Is it though, or is it in stocks? And even if he cashed in on that 4.8 bln, what would he do with it? Surely not put it all as a bolus into the economy, no CEO does that, they'd place their funds into bonds or other stocks. He will likely still buy 1 pair of jeans, 2 pillows, and 1 ice cream like the rest of us. The true way to put that 4.8 billion into the economy is to give the consumers, the drivers and riders the…

Then the value just diffuses in the whole economy, ending up in investments in countless industries.

Instead you can keep it in stocks of companies you believe in, like startups and interesting moonshots.

It all ends up with the question - do you want the economy to decide where to focus the value (the diffusion) or do you want to decide yourself?

But if you have this amount of money in the first place, you are statistically in the better place to decide than the economy.

Re: 'The Gig Economy' Is the New Term for Serfdom

#32

Post by taneq »

carlmr wrote: post #19
gambiting wrote: post #3

I was mostly agreeing with the article until this part: "His medallion, once worth $1.1 million, had plummeted in value to $180,000. The dramatic drop in the value of the medallion, which he had hoped to lease for $3,000 a month or sell to finance his retirement, wiped out his economic security. He faced financial ruin and poverty. And he was not alone." The medalions are stupid and shouldn't exist. Relying on their…

Yes, the medallions were stupid, although I think they shouldn't have allowed Uber to operate without medallions, or get rid of the system in general. >Relying on their "value" for retirement is crazy. And like another commenter has said - if it was worth 1.1 million, why not sell it and retire Because he took out a loan of 1.1 million to buy it. It's not that he bought it for next to nothing and it rose to that pric…

Exactly, and that's my problem with ride sharing companies like Uber (or rather, with governments letting them operate as unlicenced taxis despite strict regulation of 'real' taxis). The government created an artificial monopoly, sold tickets to operate in that monopoly, and then failed to protect it. Medallions were a stupid idea but that doesn't mean the government should be able to just write them off and screw over the people holding them.

Re: 'The Gig Economy' Is the New Term for Serfdom

#33

Post by gambiting »

carlmr wrote: post #22
gambiting wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only assume he didn't buy it for 1.1 million dollars. If you bought a truck for say $100k, but after few years its value rose to $1.1M, I'd also recommend selling the truck instead of relying on the idea that the truck will retain its value and support retirement.

He probably bought it on a huge loan for 1 million, and you can't just retire on the difference.

I don't see information in the article about how much he paid for it - but if he's been a driver for long I doubt that he paid anywhere near that much.

Re: 'The Gig Economy' Is the New Term for Serfdom

#34

Post by merpnderp »

shusson wrote: post #9
WhompingWindows wrote: post #6

Serfdom is not a good comparison. Serfs were essentially slaves required to work the land, they did not choose to do so at hours that suited them, which is a key "feature" of the gig economy. They also were required to work mines, logging, or whatever service the lord of the manor wished. Let's say you worked for ride-shaes the same hours as a serf, something like sunrise to sunset. If you drove an Uber in my city fo…

I think the point is we are heading in the direction of more inequality where people feel like slaves to the economy.

Slaves because they have to work at all? Or slaves because flipping burgers doesn't pay for for a McMansion? Because someone else makes millions does that absolve someone else from working at all at whatever value they can provide?

Re: 'The Gig Economy' Is the New Term for Serfdom

#35

Post by rhino369 »

huffmsa wrote: post #27
refurb wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, I actually feel bad for medallion owners, even if the medallion system is a bad one. The gov't sets ups a system, tells you the rules and says "if you buy an expensive medallion, you can drive a cab and make a living". The value of the medallion is purely based on the gov't promise to maintain the system. So you buy one (or many) and a few years later someone does a work around and the gov't says "oh we…

Yes, it's purely based on artificial scarcity. Which historical never lasts. PanAm went bust because they banked on price fixed airline tickets. USPS benefited from national mail logistics only being available to government level endeavors. DeBeers is about to get crushed by artificial diamonds which are both cheaper and "better diamonds" than the massive stockpile they've accumulated. The rocket industry has long la…

DeBeers already got crushed by Canadian mines. Their cartel fell apart 10+ years ago.

Re: 'The Gig Economy' Is the New Term for Serfdom

#36

Post by adventured »

carlmr wrote: post #19
gambiting wrote: post #3

I was mostly agreeing with the article until this part: "His medallion, once worth $1.1 million, had plummeted in value to $180,000. The dramatic drop in the value of the medallion, which he had hoped to lease for $3,000 a month or sell to finance his retirement, wiped out his economic security. He faced financial ruin and poverty. And he was not alone." The medalions are stupid and shouldn't exist. Relying on their…

Yes, the medallions were stupid, although I think they shouldn't have allowed Uber to operate without medallions, or get rid of the system in general. >Relying on their "value" for retirement is crazy. And like another commenter has said - if it was worth 1.1 million, why not sell it and retire Because he took out a loan of 1.1 million to buy it. It's not that he bought it for next to nothing and it rose to that pric…

> it was always a stable asset. Because regulation didn't allow non-medallion taxis in the city.

In fact it was not a stable asset. Medallion values had increased dramatically in a relatively short amount of time. They went up in price by four fold in ten years for both corporate and individual. [1]

Is it rational to buy something after an extreme price appreciation like that, with the assumption that it couldn't possibly go back down?

[1] https://i.imgur.com/TeJiCpf.png

Re: 'The Gig Economy' Is the New Term for Serfdom

#37

Post by bbddg »

Agebor wrote: post #31
WhompingWindows wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it though, or is it in stocks? And even if he cashed in on that 4.8 bln, what would he do with it? Surely not put it all as a bolus into the economy, no CEO does that, they'd place their funds into bonds or other stocks. He will likely still buy 1 pair of jeans, 2 pillows, and 1 ice cream like the rest of us. The true way to put that 4.8 billion into the economy is to give the consumers, the drivers and riders the…

Then the value just diffuses in the whole economy, ending up in investments in countless industries. Instead you can keep it in stocks of companies you believe in, like startups and interesting moonshots. It all ends up with the question - do you want the economy to decide where to focus the value (the diffusion) or do you want to decide yourself? But if you have this amount of money in the first place, you are stati…

I think you need a citation for that last point. This is the exact logic that got us the 2008 crash.

Re: 'The Gig Economy' Is the New Term for Serfdom

#38

Post by prepend »

refurb wrote: post #14
gambiting wrote: post #3

I was mostly agreeing with the article until this part: "His medallion, once worth $1.1 million, had plummeted in value to $180,000. The dramatic drop in the value of the medallion, which he had hoped to lease for $3,000 a month or sell to finance his retirement, wiped out his economic security. He faced financial ruin and poverty. And he was not alone." The medalions are stupid and shouldn't exist. Relying on their…

To be honest, I actually feel bad for medallion owners, even if the medallion system is a bad one. The gov't sets ups a system, tells you the rules and says "if you buy an expensive medallion, you can drive a cab and make a living". The value of the medallion is purely based on the gov't promise to maintain the system. So you buy one (or many) and a few years later someone does a work around and the gov't says "oh we…

It does suck. This happens quite a bit with land rezoning. Where a govt change to a long designation increases or lower value. For land rezoning, the property owner can be compensated (https://finance-commerce.com/2011/08/lost-real-estate-value-...).

With Uber it’s a bit different as rideshare is different than hailed cab, so the city didn’t actually take an action that resulted in value.

Re: 'The Gig Economy' Is the New Term for Serfdom

#39

Post by huffmsa »

rhino369 wrote: post #35
huffmsa wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's purely based on artificial scarcity. Which historical never lasts. PanAm went bust because they banked on price fixed airline tickets. USPS benefited from national mail logistics only being available to government level endeavors. DeBeers is about to get crushed by artificial diamonds which are both cheaper and "better diamonds" than the massive stockpile they've accumulated. The rocket industry has long la…

DeBeers already got crushed by Canadian mines. Their cartel fell apart 10+ years ago.

Well then said Canadian mine owners had better buckle up.
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