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Ask HN: What do Facebook employees think about their company?

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Re: Ask HN: What do Facebook employees think about their company?

#11

Post by cornholio »

I think the way this problem is framed succumbs to an outdated world view, an image of the samurai computer hackers that put themselves in the service of the corporate lords - but are ultimately responsible for their actions against society and can choose to rebel. They are rare and prized and thus their collaboration is valued by the lords.

This is a romantic vision that the companies themselves like to perpetuate, but it's no longer true for a decade or more. It's irrelevant what the Facebook employees think, just like it's irrelevant what the employees of McDonalds think about the health of their customers. They are not unique, precious snowflakes of rare skill, they are replaceable cogs in a machine that exists for a single purpose, profit. Massive IT education programs now underway everywhere in the world will ensure that the corporations will have vast masses of foot soldiers so they can concentrate on what matters: creating competitive advantage and market dominance using the strong network effects technology affords.

Silicon Valley has bred an ultra-aggressive type of capitalism that will crush and automate the old competitors away but will no longer redistribute the wealth to the workers, as capitalism has done for the last few hundred years, because it no longer needs them. In this economic war, developers are rich mercenaries, not noble freedom fighters. The likes of Facebook and Uber are simply the expression of that social reality, a glimpse into the world of tomorrow.

Re: Ask HN: What do Facebook employees think about their company?

#12

Post by lifeisstillgood »

Imagine that software development / engineering was a profession along the lines of law or medicine - no one could "practise software" without belonging.

Now imagine we are drawing up the ethics code for that profession - is what facebook did something that could reasonably be banned? Is there direct harm involved?

In my (very personal) view Facebook is just an example of an externality - this loss of control over data is a form of pollution, and the costs are rarely direct harm to individuals, even though society as a whole seems to be being harmed.

So rather long windedly, i don't think this is something to beat up on individual Facebook employees - this is something for society level regulation - look to the GDPR and its successors

Medical ethics jumping off point: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_ethics

Re: Ask HN: What do Facebook employees think about their company?

#13

Post by qwerty456127 »

golergka wrote: post #8

Facebook employees and tech workers in general have a much wider spectrum of opinions that what echo chambers like HN allow. I personally know a lot of Facebook, Apple and Microsoft employees who voted Trump. Palantir employees who are very proud about their jobs and believe that they're making a positive impact on the world. Uber employees who believe that they're engaged in a good fight against regulation and burea…

There is nothing wrong in telling what do you feel about something when you are asked. And there is no problem in expressing an unpopular opinion on HN as you can sign-up anonymously at any time and just share whatever thoughts you want.

Re: Ask HN: What do Facebook employees think about their company?

#14

Post by feral »

cornholio wrote: post #11

I think the way this problem is framed succumbs to an outdated world view, an image of the samurai computer hackers that put themselves in the service of the corporate lords - but are ultimately responsible for their actions against society and can choose to rebel. They are rare and prized and thus their collaboration is valued by the lords. This is a romantic vision that the companies themselves like to perpetuate,…

Nonsense, at least today.

If 'massive IT education programs' had made engineers disposable, then salaries would be a lot lower. (If you need 'data' on this, Glassdoor says FB SWE salaries are >120k, total comp will be a lot higher. Compare that to a job with an actual disposable workforce.)

>In this economic war, developers are rich mercenaries, not noble freedom fighters.

If you said developers were poor mercenaries, that'd be one thing. But if you are rich, then you can choose to work somewhere compatible with your morals.

And if you don't make that choice, its on you.

Re: Ask HN: What do Facebook employees think about their company?

#15

Post by pavlov »

muzani wrote: post #9
ex3ndr wrote: post #7

This was my first question at job interview to Facebook. Luckily i got an indian developer and i knew about how aggressive facebook in his home country (does everybody remembers free basics?) and i asked about what he thinks. Answer was simple - this is a form of a competition. I think "competition" can easily justify doing shady things - any of your competitors eventually will do the same and because of this there a…

Ah, the dodgy salesman approach: "If they don't buy our useless thing, they will buy the same useless thing from one of our competitors anyway!"

Maybe more like: "If we don't send someone to sneak around our customers' houses looking for clues of what they might buy, one of our competitors would do the same! Besides, it's the customer's fault if they leave the door unlocked."

Re: Ask HN: What do Facebook employees think about their company?

#16

Post by slivym »

cornholio wrote: post #11

I think the way this problem is framed succumbs to an outdated world view, an image of the samurai computer hackers that put themselves in the service of the corporate lords - but are ultimately responsible for their actions against society and can choose to rebel. They are rare and prized and thus their collaboration is valued by the lords. This is a romantic vision that the companies themselves like to perpetuate,…

The turning point for this seems to have been the anti-competitive agreement between Apple, Google and others to avoid poaching of top talent. This new generation of companies seem intent on making all the same mistakes of their predecessors.

Re: Ask HN: What do Facebook employees think about their company?

#17

Post by pavlov »

golergka wrote: post #8

Facebook employees and tech workers in general have a much wider spectrum of opinions that what echo chambers like HN allow. I personally know a lot of Facebook, Apple and Microsoft employees who voted Trump. Palantir employees who are very proud about their jobs and believe that they're making a positive impact on the world. Uber employees who believe that they're engaged in a good fight against regulation and burea…

Clearly San Francisco needs an annual Surveillance Capitalism Pride Parade.

Re: Ask HN: What do Facebook employees think about their company?

#18

Post by Dwolb »

yodsanklai wrote: post #10

I'm interested in the answers. I'm having upcoming interviews with Facebook, and I wonder if the recent events should be addressed in the "culture fit" interview. My personal opinion is that the problem is not so much with Facebook but with the legislation. Corporations like Facebook are there to make profit within the rules defined by society. I hope there will be stronger laws to protect our privacy and data, and g…

The nuance here is there's better individual data collection and targeting on a massive scale than society has ever dealt with before.

Never has a business been able to properly choose the correct advertisement to show an individual at the exact moment they're looking to purchase an item to maximize likelihood of purchase.

It's incredible and we've never dealt with something like this. We'll get better at understanding and education of the issues but not without major setbacks.

So, yes corporations can legally make a profit within rules defined by society. However, whether or not corporations are in a sustainable position is entirely up to how they're able to manage long term viability with profits (short and long term).

Re: Ask HN: What do Facebook employees think about their company?

#19

Post by knowThySelfx »

pavlov wrote: post #17
golergka wrote: post #8

Facebook employees and tech workers in general have a much wider spectrum of opinions that what echo chambers like HN allow. I personally know a lot of Facebook, Apple and Microsoft employees who voted Trump. Palantir employees who are very proud about their jobs and believe that they're making a positive impact on the world. Uber employees who believe that they're engaged in a good fight against regulation and burea…

Clearly San Francisco needs an annual Surveillance Capitalism Pride Parade.

What will happen if you don't tow the line? Will there be tolerance?

Re: Ask HN: What do Facebook employees think about their company?

#20

Post by ijafri »

cornholio wrote: post #11

I think the way this problem is framed succumbs to an outdated world view, an image of the samurai computer hackers that put themselves in the service of the corporate lords - but are ultimately responsible for their actions against society and can choose to rebel. They are rare and prized and thus their collaboration is valued by the lords. This is a romantic vision that the companies themselves like to perpetuate,…

Speaking of samurai

Zuckerberg Taunted Employees With Samurai Sword, Ex-Facebooker Says

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/236306

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