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EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#61

Post by gaius »

idbehold wrote: post #28
flexie wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What backlash? Save from a well run PR and lobby campaign by Google, few consumers would mind.

You're kidding, right? You don't think people would be upset when they cannot access Gmail, Google search results, or Google Maps? And a message in each service asking users to contact their representatives if they want access to the services again would be all that is required.

Well we know how people would react, because it happened before when Google was forced out of China.

Everyone there uses a local alternative and doesn’t give a fuck about Google anymore

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#62

Post by aeorgnoieang »

takeda wrote: post #47
citilife wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they really can. Effectively, they'd have to block Google in the EU. Otherwise, Google can technically just stay in the U.S. and sell services. Ad's don't have to be location based, pretty sure a lot of advertising is elicit materials (such as porn) anyway - which already may not be allowed. Unless you stop people from just heading to the top search engine in the world, they'll keep using it.

I say that blocking google in EU would actually be a good thing for a consumer. It would force people to try out alternatives (which do exist). Google currently has a monopoly for search, email, maps (and many other services which I care less about) it is crazy that we allowed it to happen. It's not too far fetch that Google pretty much owns the internet. If Google blocks you or your company you might as well not exi…

If the EU forced Google to breakup search, email, and maps, (and assuming they're monopolies now) why wouldn't those continue to be monopolies?

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#63

Post by simion314 »

csomar wrote: post #42

I can understand the hatred many people here have toward Google, Facebook or other big gigantic life-controlling entities. The step to remove Google dominance is to find, create and nurture alternatives. For example, I started using Fastmail. I'm using some of Apple products like the Calendar and Notes. I'm using Skype for communication. So I'm diversifying a bit though they can engage in data sharing. This reduces t…

Why not apply the existing rules against monopolies and anti competitive actions, what changed since Microsoft almost was broken up?

IMO is not competitive to have Google with it's advertising money get involved in 10 or more different activities and killing the companies that were or would have appeared there just because they have money and can run without profit.

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#64

Post by dmitrygr »

qeternity wrote: post #40
Slansitartop wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could such a breakup order or sanctions be specific to certain businesses? Google has a strong position in the email space, but it isn't anywhere as dominant as it is with search and web advertising.

> Google has a strong position in the email space, but it isn't anywhere as dominant as it is with search and web advertising. What?? The whole point of a breakup is precisely because they are dominant in all of the things you mentioned. Also, my comment is irrelevant if they actually comply with a breakup order. If they don't, and they withdraw from the EU, it doesn't matter how the breakup is structured because the…

Spain tried it. It started with a bang like this [1] and ended with a whimper like this [2].

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/16/google-news-sp...

[2] https://techcrunch.com/2014/12/14/spanish-newspapers-want-go...

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#65

Post by majormajor »

csomar wrote: post #42

I can understand the hatred many people here have toward Google, Facebook or other big gigantic life-controlling entities. The step to remove Google dominance is to find, create and nurture alternatives. For example, I started using Fastmail. I'm using some of Apple products like the Calendar and Notes. I'm using Skype for communication. So I'm diversifying a bit though they can engage in data sharing. This reduces t…

Could you elaborate on why you see it irreplaceable? I don't see how that reconciles with your personal examples of alternative tools?

I, similarly, use Apple Maps more than Google Maps now, Messenger or iMessage more than Hangouts, and don't feel like things would be too terrible if I had to go further into Outlook.com or iCloud instead of Gmail/Calendar... Google's versions are better but not in a way that seems magical or impossible to replace (from my experience with my work email/calendar in Outlook).

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#66

Post by joejerryronnie »

Vestager is using the bully pulpit of an EU commissioner to further her political ambitions and it is already starting to grate on her allies in the EU. She is beginning to significantly overstep her bounds and is risking a powerful backlash. Right now, everyone is blaming big tech for all the world's ills, and she is jumping on the bandwagon. But the public is very fickle. If the American and European populists realize the potential to paint Vestager as the poster child for elite globalism and really start to nitpick at her inconsistencies and political ambitions, she will not only have given Trump some very real ammunition for further US/EU conflict but may sow the seeds for additional internal EU strife.

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#67

Post by ubernostrum »

csomar wrote: post #42

I can understand the hatred many people here have toward Google, Facebook or other big gigantic life-controlling entities. The step to remove Google dominance is to find, create and nurture alternatives. For example, I started using Fastmail. I'm using some of Apple products like the Calendar and Notes. I'm using Skype for communication. So I'm diversifying a bit though they can engage in data sharing. This reduces t…

The step to remove Google dominance is to find, create and nurture alternatives.

Until Google's search results page for what you want to do decides to "promote" Google's own solution and "penalize" the competitor.

Which is something Google already does. They claim to have only the best and purest and most angelic of intentions, but the result is still strongly anti-competitive behavior and makes competing with Google a task that ranges from merely "obscenely difficult" all the way up to "actually impossible".

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#68

Post by Nokinside »

EMEA region brings roughly 30% of the revenue for Alphabet. EU alone probably 25% of that. US is 47%.

For a company that benefits from network externalizes a much as Alphabet does, revenue alone is not good measure of market importance. Losing one market means that market share in all markets is threatened and company growth is in peril.

In practice EU probably will not explicitly demand company break up. They wold create conditions that effectively break up the company inside EU. It's up to the owners to decide how they arrange it in the practice.

First Alphabet might have to choose what its main business is (= search) then all other businesses and services are separated from the search into different entities when they operate inside EU or serve customers inside EU. This would include Google Play, Youtube, Android, user accounts, ad placements, and ad sales generated from the EU.

This would break the platform synergy. Negotiators might leave carrots that make it easier for Alphabet preserve it's stock valuation if it rolls over and yields to most demands.

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#69

Post by zapita »

csomar wrote: post #42

I can understand the hatred many people here have toward Google, Facebook or other big gigantic life-controlling entities. The step to remove Google dominance is to find, create and nurture alternatives. For example, I started using Fastmail. I'm using some of Apple products like the Calendar and Notes. I'm using Skype for communication. So I'm diversifying a bit though they can engage in data sharing. This reduces t…

"I can understand the hatred many people here have toward Standard Oil or other big gigantic life-controlling entities.

The step to remove Standard Oil dominance is to find, create and nurture alternatives. For example, I started buying petroleum from a small independent refiner. I'm using some of Royal Dutch Oil Company products like their lubricants and ointments. I'm using whale oil for indoor lighting.

So I'm diversifying a bit though they can engage in price fixing. This reduces the monopoly power of one single entity.

Blocking Standard Oil, Royal Dutch or another big provider will not work and if it did, it can have severe consequences. Most people (and politicians) are ignoring the massive productivity benefits that Standard Oil is bringing. It can be used for evil, but the productivity it brings is paramount.

You can't fight Standard Oil by blocking it or destroying it. There is a reason that Standard Oil is huge: It is magical and there is no usable alternative.

To remove Standard Oil monopoly you did what Standard Oil did for the Cleveland or Pittsburg cartels: You build an alternative. It is possible to have multiple alternatives for oil like for steel or railroads (though we have only two).

The reason we don't? Standard Oil won. Carnegie Steel won. North Pacific won. Everybody gave up and just accepted it. Now everyone is screaming of "regulating" these guys. Trust me. This how you get closer to your demise (politicians and current day governments) than to their demise."

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#70

Post by ocdtrekkie »

dmitrygr wrote: post #64
qeternity wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google has a strong position in the email space, but it isn't anywhere as dominant as it is with search and web advertising. What?? The whole point of a breakup is precisely because they are dominant in all of the things you mentioned. Also, my comment is irrelevant if they actually comply with a breakup order. If they don't, and they withdraw from the EU, it doesn't matter how the breakup is structured because the…

Spain tried it. It started with a bang like this [1] and ended with a whimper like this [2]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/16/google-news-sp... [2] https://techcrunch.com/2014/12/14/spanish-newspapers-want-go...

I don't think a minor scuffle about Google News, a product Google's profits aren't dependent on, and user data isn't contained in, is a relevant comparison to discussion of what would happen if a search/email-level breakup was in the cards.
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