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Why collision avoidance is harder for an AI-based system

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Re: Why collision avoidance is harder for an AI-based system

#11
post #2

> AI is not preprogrammed to monitor a known input from a sensor to take a predefined action. I guess one of my outstanding questions, which reading this only confirmed, is why this is the case? I mean, humans are pretty good examples of intelligence. And yet we still have and use these anti-collision systems. Because, in the end, when wrong decisions are made these systems save lives. Why would AI-driven vehicles no…

This is a design trade-off that comes up all the time in automotive engineering. I own a couple of 90's-era Honda vehicles and what's interesting is although the cars are computerized, they also employ a number of semi-independent systems such as instrument gauges which directly connect to their own sensors even though a similar sensor connected to the engine control unit is right next to it, mechanical choke and coolant temperature modulators to intake air despite fuel injection, an "hydraulic computer" controlling part of the automatic transmission even though there is also a dedicated transmission control computer (which is itself redundant to making the transmission control an integrated feature of the engine control module).

To me this seems to make no design sense; why not bring all of the inputs into one central box with one computer control, and drive all of the outputs from this central box? But then who am I to argue that the separate / bespoke approach is not better, given Honda's reputation for reliability?

Re: Why collision avoidance is harder for an AI-based system

#12
post #9
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in response to that piece by Brad, I sincerely hope that the "safety" driver in the uber accident was fired.

Why? If it is not proven the driver was negligent why fire this individual? Presumably this individual has a lot of experience and domain knowledge in testing self driving cars so replacing them with someone else may not be an improvement. If they did make a mistake that got someone killed that could change things but I would hope we wait to find out if the driver was actually at fault.

I don't think Uber's safety drivers have any domain knowledge. The law says you need bodies in seats so Uber is paying as little as possible to put bodies in seats. They aren't engineers or professional (as in stunt/trick/etc) drivers.

Re: Why collision avoidance is harder for an AI-based system

#13
post #9
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in response to that piece by Brad, I sincerely hope that the "safety" driver in the uber accident was fired.

Why? If it is not proven the driver was negligent why fire this individual? Presumably this individual has a lot of experience and domain knowledge in testing self driving cars so replacing them with someone else may not be an improvement. If they did make a mistake that got someone killed that could change things but I would hope we wait to find out if the driver was actually at fault.

They released inward-facing video of the safety driver shortly after the incident.

The driver was staring at her phone in her lap with only occasional glances at the road every 5 seconds or so. I would call that pretty negligent.

Re: Why collision avoidance is harder for an AI-based system

#14
post #2

> AI is not preprogrammed to monitor a known input from a sensor to take a predefined action. I guess one of my outstanding questions, which reading this only confirmed, is why this is the case? I mean, humans are pretty good examples of intelligence. And yet we still have and use these anti-collision systems. Because, in the end, when wrong decisions are made these systems save lives. Why would AI-driven vehicles no…

This is a design trade-off that comes up all the time in automotive engineering. I own a couple of 90's-era Honda vehicles and what's interesting is although the cars are computerized, they also employ a number of semi-independent systems such as instrument gauges which directly connect to their own sensors even though a similar sensor connected to the engine control unit is right next to it, mechanical choke and coo…

Seems like classic, prudent, avoiding of single points of failure. Sounds reasonable, especially since computerization in cars was still pretty new back then.

For something like ABS, or emergency braking, we have established algorithms for this already, so why be in a hurry to offload that to a machine-learning black box? Is the math behind "we need to stop this car" so complex that AI is needed?

Re: Why collision avoidance is harder for an AI-based system

#15

Has anyone been able to even remotely explain why the LIDAR system wasn't going nuts? I saw the "it was dark" nonsense, but I assume this vehicle had laser and IR right? The camera footage was released, I'd like to see the lidar representation.

I thought there were suggestions that the LIDAR was turned off for testing.

Re: Why collision avoidance is harder for an AI-based system

#17
> Also, lets back up our AI’s with old school collision avoidance! Intelligence is not the same as perfection, at least for now.

The car was travelling at 38mph and never braked. Even if the collision-avoidance only saw it at the last moment it would still have braked and potentially slowed the car enough so that the woman was injured instead of being killed.

I'm all for self-driving and fully believe it can improve on humans, but I don't see how it's possible for self-driving cars to be on the road if they can't properly detect the most vulnerable users in all conditions.

Re: Why collision avoidance is harder for an AI-based system

#18
post #9
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in response to that piece by Brad, I sincerely hope that the "safety" driver in the uber accident was fired.

Why? If it is not proven the driver was negligent why fire this individual? Presumably this individual has a lot of experience and domain knowledge in testing self driving cars so replacing them with someone else may not be an improvement. If they did make a mistake that got someone killed that could change things but I would hope we wait to find out if the driver was actually at fault.

>Presumably this individual has a lot of experience and domain knowledge in testing self driving car

How do you arrive at this?

Re: Why collision avoidance is harder for an AI-based system

#19
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? If it is not proven the driver was negligent why fire this individual? Presumably this individual has a lot of experience and domain knowledge in testing self driving cars so replacing them with someone else may not be an improvement. If they did make a mistake that got someone killed that could change things but I would hope we wait to find out if the driver was actually at fault.

I don't think Uber's safety drivers have any domain knowledge. The law says you need bodies in seats so Uber is paying as little as possible to put bodies in seats. They aren't engineers or professional (as in stunt/trick/etc) drivers.

[deleted]

Re: Why collision avoidance is harder for an AI-based system

#20
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? If it is not proven the driver was negligent why fire this individual? Presumably this individual has a lot of experience and domain knowledge in testing self driving cars so replacing them with someone else may not be an improvement. If they did make a mistake that got someone killed that could change things but I would hope we wait to find out if the driver was actually at fault.

>Presumably this individual has a lot of experience and domain knowledge in testing self driving car How do you arrive at this?

Well they were in a self driving car working for Uber in the capacity of self driving car test driver so they have more experience than me or anyone I know. But that’s only a presumption as I said.
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