Live data from Hacker News

Kim Dotcom wins battle in ongoing fight against U.S. extradition

reuters.com

41–50 of 143 posts

Re: Kim Dotcom wins battle in ongoing fight against U.S. extradition

#41

I always wanted to know how is the damage done determined ? "U.S. authorities say Dotcom and three co-accused Megaupload executives cost film studios and record companies more than $500 million and generated more than $175 million by encouraging paying users to store and share copyrighted material." Distributing copyrighted stuff is illegal, period. But the way those calculations are made worries me. Do they start fr…

It depends on the country! In Spain for instance it's totally legal as long as there is no commercial intention. Both "distributing" and "copyrighted" are terms that some times have not such clear boundaries. Is giving your sibling a used DVD illegal? Is selling it to a 2nd hand store illegal? A book is clearly legal to resell, right? Then why wouldn't some digital material be? There is a whole industry interested in…

People paid for their service too. So they are making money directly off of users’ illegal actions like how

1) airbnb users illegally converting rooms into short term rentals 2) amazon helping people avoid sales tax 3) uber lyft allowing drivers to drive taxis without a taxi license

Re: Kim Dotcom wins battle in ongoing fight against U.S. extradition

#42
post #25

Why is this guy's legal troubles news? Honestly. There's tons of rich jerks like him who have legal troubles that we don't hear about. But for some reason he likes to put out press releases about every step of the way and then they actually get picked up and upvoted on sites like this. Why? I really don't understand. It's not like he's some principled crusader fighting for a precedent that affects all of us. He's jus…

Nice to see I'm not the only one who's tired of seeing this guy.

No, he wasn't technically responsible. Sure, his site complied with takedown requests to the extent they were required to and literally not one damn quarter inch further. Technically, technically, technically.

He also profited directly off of and made no secret about enabling people to skirt copyright laws. I agree they need a lot of work, but you don't get to break the law simply because you disagree with it.

Re: Kim Dotcom wins battle in ongoing fight against U.S. extradition

#43

I always wanted to know how is the damage done determined ? "U.S. authorities say Dotcom and three co-accused Megaupload executives cost film studios and record companies more than $500 million and generated more than $175 million by encouraging paying users to store and share copyrighted material." Distributing copyrighted stuff is illegal, period. But the way those calculations are made worries me. Do they start fr…

It depends on the country! In Spain for instance it's totally legal as long as there is no commercial intention. Both "distributing" and "copyrighted" are terms that some times have not such clear boundaries. Is giving your sibling a used DVD illegal? Is selling it to a 2nd hand store illegal? A book is clearly legal to resell, right? Then why wouldn't some digital material be? There is a whole industry interested in…

In Poland it's the same - downloading pretty much anything for personal use is perfectly legal, only sharing isn't(so using Kim's service would have been 100% fine).

Re: Kim Dotcom wins battle in ongoing fight against U.S. extradition

#44

I always wanted to know how is the damage done determined ? "U.S. authorities say Dotcom and three co-accused Megaupload executives cost film studios and record companies more than $500 million and generated more than $175 million by encouraging paying users to store and share copyrighted material." Distributing copyrighted stuff is illegal, period. But the way those calculations are made worries me. Do they start fr…

I don't know about this specific case, but in the US they often use statutory damages instead: "the copyright owner may elect, at any time before final judgment is rendered, to recover, instead of actual damages and profits, an award of statutory damages for all infringements involved in the action, with respect to any one work, for which any one infringer is liable individually, or for which any two or more infringe…

America is always winning the craziness award in these threads, due to being ultra capitalistic with no regard to common sense.

Re: Kim Dotcom wins battle in ongoing fight against U.S. extradition

#45
post #40

They should make a movie about this guy :D

Only if it includes his illegal and disgusting previous activities, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Dotcom#Legal_investigation... and https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Dotcom#Werdegang

LOL of course... like the whole kit and caboodle. I bet they'd make back all the money they could realistically claim to have lost by his antics. I'm just wondering who they could cast to capture his personality profile. Jack Black? :P

He reminds me of an arch villain that you love to hate from some superhero movie... like The Kingpin. We need a superhero to battle him. He has comic book legend written all over him.

Re: Kim Dotcom wins battle in ongoing fight against U.S. extradition

#46
post #25

Why is this guy's legal troubles news? Honestly. There's tons of rich jerks like him who have legal troubles that we don't hear about. But for some reason he likes to put out press releases about every step of the way and then they actually get picked up and upvoted on sites like this. Why? I really don't understand. It's not like he's some principled crusader fighting for a precedent that affects all of us. He's jus…

> He's just some creep who got rich off of deliberately running a site that facilitated piracy He actually got rich off of the Dot Com bubble years before, which is why he changed his name to Kim Dotcom. He embodies a lot of the stereotypical hacker image that people have - overweight, hacked the Pentagon+NASA+Citibank before he was old enough to drink in the US, a touch dramatic, etc. It's only natural that he's giv…

He didn’t hack anything nor get rich off of the bubble. He was always a fraud.

Re: Kim Dotcom wins battle in ongoing fight against U.S. extradition

#47
post #25

Why is this guy's legal troubles news? Honestly. There's tons of rich jerks like him who have legal troubles that we don't hear about. But for some reason he likes to put out press releases about every step of the way and then they actually get picked up and upvoted on sites like this. Why? I really don't understand. It's not like he's some principled crusader fighting for a precedent that affects all of us. He's jus…

> He's just some creep who got rich off of deliberately running a site that facilitated piracy He actually got rich off of the Dot Com bubble years before, which is why he changed his name to Kim Dotcom. He embodies a lot of the stereotypical hacker image that people have - overweight, hacked the Pentagon+NASA+Citibank before he was old enough to drink in the US, a touch dramatic, etc. It's only natural that he's giv…

> He embodies a lot of the stereotypical hacker image that people have - overweight, hacked the Pentagon+NASA+Citibank before he was old enough to drink in the US, a touch dramatic, etc. It's only natural that he's given a bit of attention.

Bullllllcrap.

Re: Kim Dotcom wins battle in ongoing fight against U.S. extradition

#48
post #25

Why is this guy's legal troubles news? Honestly. There's tons of rich jerks like him who have legal troubles that we don't hear about. But for some reason he likes to put out press releases about every step of the way and then they actually get picked up and upvoted on sites like this. Why? I really don't understand. It's not like he's some principled crusader fighting for a precedent that affects all of us. He's jus…

im really suprised this is so downvoted, its articulate, and seems right to me. why would you like this guy? some people like anyone rich apparently...

Re: Kim Dotcom wins battle in ongoing fight against U.S. extradition

#49
post #25

Why is this guy's legal troubles news? Honestly. There's tons of rich jerks like him who have legal troubles that we don't hear about. But for some reason he likes to put out press releases about every step of the way and then they actually get picked up and upvoted on sites like this. Why? I really don't understand. It's not like he's some principled crusader fighting for a precedent that affects all of us. He's jus…

Nice to see I'm not the only one who's tired of seeing this guy. No, he wasn't technically responsible. Sure, his site complied with takedown requests to the extent they were required to and literally not one damn quarter inch further . Technically, technically, technically. He also profited directly off of and made no secret about enabling people to skirt copyright laws. I agree they need a lot of work, but you don'…

The reason it matters is exactly what you said. MegaUpload did comply to the law and not one inch more, just like they were supposed to. Then the MPAA got the US government involved in what should have been a civil matter. That wasn’t enough so then the US government induced an allied government to execute a tactical raid on the guy’s house and seize his business assets including the servers containing customer data.

The outcome is that this has been strung out in court so long that companies like Google/YouTube far exceed what the law requires in bending over for the MPAA/RIAA mafia, leading to massive amounts of false copyright claims. The precedent set by MegaUpload was “it doesn’t matter if you follow the law, the MAFIAA is so powerful that the US will send men with guns after you no matter what corner of the Earth you reside in.”

Re: Kim Dotcom wins battle in ongoing fight against U.S. extradition

#50

I always wanted to know how is the damage done determined ? "U.S. authorities say Dotcom and three co-accused Megaupload executives cost film studios and record companies more than $500 million and generated more than $175 million by encouraging paying users to store and share copyrighted material." Distributing copyrighted stuff is illegal, period. But the way those calculations are made worries me. Do they start fr…

tl;dr: damages are claimed and argued by one of the parties in a lawsuit, or the prosecutor in criminal actions; the other side can argue that the calculation is wrong. In an adversarial system (in particular most systems that descend from English law), the claimant/plaintiff/prosecutor generally must claim a quantized liability at the start of proceedings, and then justify the quantum of liability. In some cases, so…

In any case, the "lost sale" doctrine is always inherently flawed, because it presumes that those downloading have unlimited entertainment budgets. No one can spend more on copies of information property than they have in discretionary income, and thus the purchase of one copy precludes the purchase of another.

It would be easy enough to presume that everyone is always spending their entire entertainment budget, and a dearth of funds for legal purchases may be why they are obtaining illegal copies. By this reasoning, the damage done due to piracy is always zero. But that's just as clearly bunk.

Some people pirate so they can spend their money on something else--something they would not have otherwise purchased if they were compelled to spend money on the information copy they might have preferred. Thus the media company is damaged because someone spent money on something else they didn't strictly need. Even by this argument, the damages would have to be capped by calculating the total discretionary income of all illegal copyholders and summing them. IP addresses assigned to an ISP serving US residential customers could likely be associated with a number for the median discretionary household income in that census tract.

You can't reasonably say that a homeless person who illegally copied 80 GB of music files from a public library computer is costing the music industry $80 million in lost sales. That person has negative discretionary income. They wouldn't ordinarily buy music until after paying for food, utilities, and rent. You might be able to argue that having already copied the music, they won't buy it when they finally do have the money to do so, but that's not strictly true. A lot of pirates do "settle up", so to speak, for the works they enjoyed most when they finally do get some extra money, by buying things legally when they previously copied them illegally.

So the sky-high plaintiff's calculations involve a lot of assumptions and shortcuts, and a competent defense would surely be able to cut them down to more reasonable, if still practically unrecoverable, numbers. But the court has no need to review those arguments unless the defendant is found liable in some way. Perhaps examination could be triggered even without finding of liability if there were also a counterclaim that the mere magnitude of the accusation constitutes defamation? I am not a lawyer, so I wouldn't know.

Post reply on HN