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Oni: Modern Modal Editing – Powered by Neovim

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Re: Oni: Modern Modal Editing – Powered by Neovim

#91

Post by pweissbrod »

wsdjeg wrote: post #77
pweissbrod wrote: post #27

What is the sweet spot of Oni? If you're looking for a full-blown IDE with vim UI on top then the vs code IntelliJ Visual Studio does reasonably good job at that. If you're looking for a beefed-up version of vim as an IDE spacevim has a package manager and a curated set of over 200 plugins dialed in to work well together for gvim or terminal. I'm just trying to understand the differentiator

SpaceVim is not same as oni, oni, is a gui app for neovim. And SpaceVim is a configration for vim/neovim to make it works like IDE, in old version SpaceVim has many plugins, but we just release v0.7.0, and the default plugins is only 50. you can checkout our release note: https://spacevim.org/SpaceVim-release-v0.7.0/

@wsdjeg: thank you for your continued work on spacevim

Re: Oni: Modern Modal Editing – Powered by Neovim

#92

Post by tambourine_man »

O_H_E wrote: post #81
tambourine_man wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Native Mac apps can be crazy fast. Haven’t seen a reasonably fast Electron app yet. Plus you lose wonderful native Cocoa text features, such spelling, dictionary, undo, etc.

Sorry I never used a Mac, but how can undo be a "wonderful" features ???

Undo on native Cocoa apps have a few delightful “smarts” that you begin to take for granted and can be infuriating when absent.

For instance, native undo is time and word sensitive. I don't know its exact heuristics, but it always seems to do what you meant.

Gmail's Chrome and Electron, on the other hand, will often undo letter by letter or leave you in mid typed words, which is nuts.

If you want another example, I often write in multiple languages, something that's beautifully handled for you on native apps. Since Skype changed to Electron, it puts a red underline on every single non english word I type and there is nothing that can be done about it, besides changing the default system language and restarting the app.

There's also CoreText's sharp line width in retina displays no matter which background/foreground color combination you choose, built in dictionary a tap away, etc.

It's just a dreadful experience otherwise, once you get used.

Re: Oni: Modern Modal Editing – Powered by Neovim

#93

Post by domenukk »

Funnnny wrote: post #68
gnulinux wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does VSCode vim plugins compared to evil-mode of emacs?

evil-mode is actually useful. VSCode's vim plugin loads really slow when you change project, doesn't have proper insert/normal/visual mode map, etc.

Have you used it recently? It works pretty well (?)

Re: Oni: Modern Modal Editing – Powered by Neovim

#94

Post by karmajunkie »

domenukk wrote: post #93
Funnnny wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

evil-mode is actually useful. VSCode's vim plugin loads really slow when you change project, doesn't have proper insert/normal/visual mode map, etc.

Have you used it recently? It works pretty well (?)

It works pretty well for movement, selection, etc. Anything that uses longer key chords is out—vscode is limited to two keystrokes afaict. It's really frustrating trying to replicate a highly customized spacemacs or vim setup.

Re: Oni: Modern Modal Editing – Powered by Neovim

#95

Post by thomasahle »

curioussavage wrote: post #60
scrollaway wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Urgh, this is so infuriating. Oni looks fantastic if it can deliver on what it does, but the infuriating part really is VSCode in all this. Code is a great editor/IDE and has a huge amount of development backing and now a pretty large market share as well, which means inertia. But the vim bindings for it are just garbage . They are slow, make the editor feel sluggish, they don't work "quite right", etc. No kidding th…

I don’t think I would be that harsh in the com plugin for vscode. It works fine for me. I’m not a vim power user though. They are planning to use neovim as a backend for it too.

That looks really exciting actually! https://github.com/VSCodeVim/Vim/issues/1735

Re: Oni: Modern Modal Editing – Powered by Neovim

#96

Post by bringtheaction »

yoz-y wrote: post #90
pjmlp wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is a lame excuse for using Electron disguised as native app, in a connected world, even native apps should be sandboxed by default. I seriously doubt it would be impossible to use Electron as it really is, a Web App.

As much as I prefer real native applications and like hating on electron, I have to give it some credit. It is not just chromium, it is chromium+nodejs and all the stuff that comes with it. The answer to "would it be feasible/easy to port an Electron app to a pure browser app" is no. Unless all of the communication between the frontend part and the native tooling is done via sockets. I agree that native apps should b…

> Unless all of the communication between the frontend part and the native tooling is done via sockets.

Admittedly I have not developed any Electron apps, but I have developed serious web apps and worked a little bit with NodeJS also.

Why don’t people do exactly that when they write their code — make all communication happen over regular HTTP and websockets?

Re: Oni: Modern Modal Editing – Powered by Neovim

#97

Post by zeveb »

pault wrote: post #18

I've been using Oni for the last few weeks as my daily driver (I liked it so much I signed up as a monthly sponsor), and here's my take on it: It's a fairly new project, but it's under _very_ active development. There's an excellent community building around it and I think we will be seeing some really great progress over the next year. That said, it isn't anywhere close to feature parity with vscode, but the value p…

> the value proposition is: neovim, with vscode compatible snippets and typescript-language-server-driven autocomplete (also works with vanilla JS) out of the box

How's that compare to emacs? It sounds like it can be extended with Vimscript or JavaScript? Emacs has several snippet/templating options, and of course it also has several autocomplete options.

> The bonus value proposition is: since it is a GUI wrapper around neovim, you get to retain all of the muscle memory you have built up in your years of using vim, but potentially also get all of the goodies that a graphical IDE like vscode provides.

Emacs has had a X GUI for about 25 years (and of course vim has had various GUIs, too — although I think less powerful & extensible).

I really don't understand what the value proposition is here. Rather than using Electron and JavaScript and Vimscript and an ancient C core, why not use X/Cocoa/WinAPI, elisp & a relatively thin C VM? I always thought that the value proposition of the vi family was small, lightweight, fast-booting, found-everywhere, clean — not arcane, baroque, complex, hyper-extensible, flexible & hairy (that's emacs's value proposition!).

From my point of view, all of these huge environments built atop vi are simply reinventing emacs, poorly — and worse, they're destroying the wonderful things I always loved & respected about vi!

Just as an example, if you want to build a 'gamified tutor mode,' maybe the original AI language might be a good choice?

Certainly, folks should be free to follow their bliss. I don't really begrudge the Oni guys their project (although I'd obviously love it if they spent that energy & brilliance a little further up the stack, e.g. by making a great text/GUI browser mode for emacs) — I just don't get it.

Re: Oni: Modern Modal Editing – Powered by Neovim

#98

Post by bringtheaction »

fwgwgwgch wrote: post #55
bringtheaction wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kinds of things in your comment are the kind of things that make me consider actually installing Oni rather than just going "oh neat, people are making Neovim frontends" like I did when I first saw this post. The only thing that makes me hesitate is because I run FreeBSD on some of my computers and FreeBSD support wasn't quite there yet for Electron apps last I checked. It may have changed in the meantime. If I w…

Can you tell us the benefits of running freebsd on a development machine?

I just feel at home with FreeBSD. I mean it’s not perfect. That’s why I run FreeBSD on some and not all of my computers and instead run Linux on the rest (and also macOS on one of them).

I like the idea of the same group of people maintaining the kernel and the userland utilities.

Also I am strongly in favor of the family of BSD/MIT/ISC licenses over GPL.

I love ZFS. I think dtrace is neat. I think jails are nice. I like pf. Nowadays there are equivalents for pretty much all of that on Linux. In fact you don’t even have to go with btrfs to get something like ZFS on Linux — the ZFS on Linux project makes ZFS available on Linux too. But on FreeBSD all of these things are there in the base install without having to do anything special and they will continue to be there for a very long time.

All in all, I just like FreeBSD a lot, and I feel at home with it in a way that few other systems make me feel.

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