Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 370 posts

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#91

Post by zrth »

kome wrote: post #79
reacharavindh wrote: post #61

So, this happened and we have confirmed about the dark patterns whether consented or not. What are good alternatives in this "Network effect" age? Facebook - I hardly use anymore. It exists undeleted because it serves as a kind of Social ID. I don't have the App installed anywhere, neither do I access it from my regular browser. The thing I'm struggling to get alternative for is WhatsApp. How could I talk to all my c…

Also: Facebook works on every platform, while at Signal they have a strange cellphone fetish. I would love to use Signal, but I have to use Telegram. The Telegram desktop app is awesome, and it doesn't need a cellphone.

Unlike telegram, signal supports e2e encryption on Linux, Mac, windows, Android and ios.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#92

Post by stormking »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #62
sdoering wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why I do not have any call/sms info in my FB data downloads. I read such stuff and deny the app these things. Btw. something I am required by law here in Germany. I would need written permission of every contact in my phonebook for this upload, before uploading. Same goes for WhatApp.

You are wrong about Germany. Only if you are a company you need permission.

No, you are wrong, this law applies to everyone.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#93

Post by WA »

roel_v wrote: post #56

So I downloaded my facebook data a few days ago and there were no phone nrs in there, no call history, actually much less of everything than I thought they'd have. Are they lying to me or does this depend on other factors?

I’d argue the data arcchive one can download are incomplete. One, it’s missing Likes.

Second, I never put my phone number in Facebook, but I know they have it, because at one time, it was pre-filled in the enable account recovery by phone-dialog.

So what you can export isn’t the full story. The question however is: how do you prove that and really ask for ALL data they have on you?

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#94

Post by drawkbox »

icebraining wrote: post #82
drawkbox wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need/needed READ_PHONE_STATE if you wanted to suspend your app data/saving and allow calls to be accepted you did. For instance you are playing a game and a call comes in, you needed them to allow that and to possibly not crash your game and save your data as well as for some analytics/social network integration. Also if you allowed os level music to be played over game audio, you need that to handle music and ap…

Where's the reference that you needed READ_PHONE_STATE to suspend your app? Shouldn't the app be automatically suspended when the caller app goes into the foreground?

The Facebook app itself is the real issue as both the Facebook app and Facebook Messenger require everything including READ_PHONE_STATE and contact permissions and pretty much everything[1][2].

> Where's the reference that you needed READ_PHONE_STATE to suspend your app? Shouldn't the app be automatically suspended when the caller app goes into the foreground?

Mostly for analytics and social platforms to access unique identifier for analytics you needed it such as in Unity up to 2015 [3][4].

> The Android build enforces READ_PHONE_STATE if the code has references to SystemInfo.deviceUniqueIdentifier. INTERNET is added when any network classes are referenced. ACCESS_NETWORK_STATE is added when calling Application.internetReachability

Also, early on it was required for saving state and or ensuring the app didn't crash. Mobile OSes were moving fast and without it the apps didn't auto suspend which they mostly do now. You can see some of this discussion in the links I included above. Anything older than Android Ice Cream required it as well.

It is added in by many plugins as well such as Google Game Play Services or other Analytics packages that most people didn't check. There was a reason the market was and is flooded with analytics packages.

It seems to re-pop up in analytics packages quite a bit and many aren't checking close enough per this example 2016 [4][5][6][7].

Largely it is due to people just building and shipping fast, there are other things that trigger it but the most common are doing things on suspend when a call comes in or to help allow the music to play in your game/app and turn off when a call comes in or analytics packages.

For the most part it is not needed now but up to 2016 it still was in many areas since Android started.

[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.facebook.k...

[2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.facebook.o...

[3] https://answers.unity.com/questions/987433/read-phone-state-...

[4] https://forum.unity.com/threads/unity-5-1-adds-android-permi...;

[5] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/39668549/why-has-the-rea...

[6] https://github.com/facebook/facebook-sdk-for-unity/issues/58

[7] https://forum.unity.com/threads/read_phone_state-permission-...

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#95

Post by sametmax »

ponderatul wrote: post #66

I think we are talking differently about this permission concept. Legally yes, they had permission. But the fact that they used those dark ux patterns to request that permission should not be forgotten. Even though legally they are in the right, we as users should make this fact irrelevant and just abandon the platform. Let them be right, let them win the argument but lose the battle with the general public.

The problem is not that they took it. There are always bad actors.

The problem is that very few people cared.

So even if people start leaving facebook in mass, it will just start all over again with another bad actor.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#96

Post by vanderZwan »

ponderatul wrote: post #66

I think we are talking differently about this permission concept. Legally yes, they had permission. But the fact that they used those dark ux patterns to request that permission should not be forgotten. Even though legally they are in the right, we as users should make this fact irrelevant and just abandon the platform. Let them be right, let them win the argument but lose the battle with the general public.

> Even though legally they are in the right

Even that is dubious. Law is interpreted by judges for this exact reason: people pushing it to extremes.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#97

Post by anilakar »

kome wrote: post #79
reacharavindh wrote: post #61

So, this happened and we have confirmed about the dark patterns whether consented or not. What are good alternatives in this "Network effect" age? Facebook - I hardly use anymore. It exists undeleted because it serves as a kind of Social ID. I don't have the App installed anywhere, neither do I access it from my regular browser. The thing I'm struggling to get alternative for is WhatsApp. How could I talk to all my c…

Also: Facebook works on every platform, while at Signal they have a strange cellphone fetish. I would love to use Signal, but I have to use Telegram. The Telegram desktop app is awesome, and it doesn't need a cellphone.

Signal has a desktop app nowadays and Telegram still requires a phone number to use.

While Signal's QR code pairing method is more awkward than Telegram's SMS one, it also prevents your account from getting hacked remotely in Iran by stealing your SMS messages: https://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/49976/intelligence/tele...

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#98

Post by stefanmm »

jonathankoren wrote: post #86
stefanmm wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it appears to be a result of extensive A/B/C ... XY testing. In a way, the users themselves have chosen it.

That's an incredibly delusional way of framing it. What do you think the A/B test was set up to optimize, privacy or number of uploads? This permission screen is a push poll.[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_poll

number of uploads, obviously. Hacking the human lazyness.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#99

Post by rojcyk »

reacharavindh wrote: post #61

So, this happened and we have confirmed about the dark patterns whether consented or not. What are good alternatives in this "Network effect" age? Facebook - I hardly use anymore. It exists undeleted because it serves as a kind of Social ID. I don't have the App installed anywhere, neither do I access it from my regular browser. The thing I'm struggling to get alternative for is WhatsApp. How could I talk to all my c…

I highly recommend Telegram. The issue with having to install yet another app is still present, but me and my close friends have made the switch and haven't looked back since.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#100

Post by thecatspaw »

orbifold wrote: post #48
sdoering wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why I do not have any call/sms info in my FB data downloads. I read such stuff and deny the app these things. Btw. something I am required by law here in Germany. I would need written permission of every contact in my phonebook for this upload, before uploading. Same goes for WhatApp.

Hm, isn't it illegal to offer this option in Germany then?

I am not sure about the wording of the law. But imho no, this would not be illegal to offer. It would be illegal to use, unless you have permission from everybody.
Post reply on HN