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Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

techcrunch.com

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Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#51

Post by yeahdef »

underwater wrote: post #31
lucb1e wrote: post #8

I'm sure they had their "permission" on page 27 of the terms of service. This isn't news... My opinion is still that those terms of services are silly. If I ever do start my own business, one of the things on the checklist is to have a minimal, if any, terms of service, because nobody wants to waste time reading them, and 99% of what is in ToSes is in the law anyway. Except, of course, data collection beyond function…

If you read the TechCrunch article you wouldn't have to guess where it was shown. There is a screenshot of the prompt that shows that the prompt and explanation "Continuously upload info about your contacts like phone numbers and nicknames, and your call and text history." Your solution of hiding this information in a minimal terms of service is strictly worse. My take away is that you can tell users exactly what you…

One man's creep is another man's crop.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#52

Post by QasimK »

pdkl95 wrote: post #36
lucb1e wrote: post #8

I'm sure they had their "permission" on page 27 of the terms of service. This isn't news... My opinion is still that those terms of services are silly. If I ever do start my own business, one of the things on the checklist is to have a minimal, if any, terms of service, because nobody wants to waste time reading them, and 99% of what is in ToSes is in the law anyway. Except, of course, data collection beyond function…

> nobody wants to waste time reading them How about a law that requires the party presenting legal paperwork to show that the recipient could have read the document. Use an algorithmic method to estimate the reading time, take off ~33% to account for variance in reading ability, and declare that the minimum time that must be spent with the document. If you cannot show that e.g. someone clicked "I Agree" at lest 5 min…

I think that’s a good way to create an incentive to write short TOSs. They shouldn’t be legally enforceable unless people are actually reading them. Nothing good can come out of that.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#53

Post by seanp2k2 »

drawnwren wrote: post #39
pdkl95 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nobody wants to waste time reading them How about a law that requires the party presenting legal paperwork to show that the recipient could have read the document. Use an algorithmic method to estimate the reading time, take off ~33% to account for variance in reading ability, and declare that the minimum time that must be spent with the document. If you cannot show that e.g. someone clicked "I Agree" at lest 5 min…

Various ToSes already attempt this. Either by forcing you to scroll to the end, timing you, or by putting verification next to each paragraph. Still, no one reads them. The problem is putting a legal contract before a leisure app. I'd rather see legislation that requires the reading level and length of the ToS to match the reading level and attention span of the average user.

The problem, as I’m sure you’re aware, is that the reading level and attention span in this case are minimal. People click through ToSes just as they click through installers. Even if the ToS was 5 words on the screen in 36pt bold font saying “WE COLLECT: Text, call, and contact data”, people would still not take the time to read or understand or care about what that actually means. They want to see cat / friend / baby photos, and will mash buttons until that happens, onboarding processes and tutorials be damned.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#54

Post by underwater »

mehrdadn wrote: post #46
underwater wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the TechCrunch article you wouldn't have to guess where it was shown. There is a screenshot of the prompt that shows that the prompt and explanation "Continuously upload info about your contacts like phone numbers and nicknames, and your call and text history." Your solution of hiding this information in a minimal terms of service is strictly worse. My take away is that you can tell users exactly what you…

I got my contacts uploaded at some point despite always making sure to reject their prompt. I'm sure people will claim it was just a "bug" or I must have just mistapped (which I have no reason to believe was the case, but how would I prove this), but either way, it's oddly convenient how it works out for them.

That is worrying. The iOS security model would have served you better; Facebook could never accidentally forget you’d said no.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#55

Post by tehlike »

Freestyler_3 wrote: post #43
tehlike wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will be a rebounce, if EFX is any indicator, and FB is a hotter stock with higher profit margin.

unless it takes a turn for the worse.

Everything is possible. Part of last weeks action was cummulative plunge in the stock market, trump's trade wars, rising rates, and so on.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#57

Post by orbifold »

Ok, well this is just great. So Facebook has all my contacts from their aquisition of WhatsApp and even though I've never used any of their Apps or had an account with them, I'm pretty sure everyone I typically communicate with has the App and did not opt-out of this collection. So they get data on me for free that the police would need a court order to get. This kind of data retention has been highly controversial in Europe and is currently illegal for carriers to do in some countries, even though the security services obviously love it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_retention), it is one of the few things I've actively politically fought against.

I really hope they will eventually crater like all the other social networks before them and I should have a way of asking them to delete all data they have on me including meta data from sms/phone calls they might have collected.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#58

Post by QasimK »

kerng wrote: post #47

We should be thankful that they haven't cross shared the WhatsApp contact info - they probably have a similar stream of information on that side.

How do we know they haven’t shared WhatsApp contact data with their main FB database? I was operating under the assumption based on some news articles that they long broke whatever promises they made.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#59

Post by hnarn »

bigiain wrote: post #6

I notice the Facebook response is all written in present tense - technically not specifying whether they were abusing the laxness of android v16 up until Oct 2017... And I trust everything Facebook say precisely as much a Zuckerberg told us all we should with his much-quoted quip "They trust me. Dumb fucks."

I feel like if you should quote a very inflammatory and controversial "quip" you should at least provide a source. Maybe I'm the only one on HN that hasn't heard about it, but even so, sources shouldn't be omitted.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#60

Post by mehrdadn »

underwater wrote: post #54
mehrdadn wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got my contacts uploaded at some point despite always making sure to reject their prompt. I'm sure people will claim it was just a "bug" or I must have just mistapped (which I have no reason to believe was the case, but how would I prove this), but either way, it's oddly convenient how it works out for them.

That is worrying. The iOS security model would have served you better; Facebook could never accidentally forget you’d said no.

> That is worrying.

Indeed. :\

> The iOS security model would have served you better; Facebook could never accidentally forget you’d said no.

Interesting, so you mean this is the case even if I uninstall and reinstall the app? What if I wipe the OS and reinstall (as "cleanly" as is possible)?

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