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Zuckerberg Takes Steps to Calm Facebook Employees

nytimes.com

81–90 of 274 posts

Re: Zuckerberg Takes Steps to Calm Facebook Employees

#81
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was true at Google. Yes, because Google is not your average company. It takes security extremely seriously... in fact it's about as awful of an example as you can give for a blanket statement you made about "most companies".

I'm not sure if Google even has an internal red team that performs breaches, last time I talked with someone there at a conference they didn't (that was 2016). So I am not sure Google has metrics on how easy it is to gain access by an adversary.

> I'm not sure if Google even has an internal red team, last time I talked with someone there they didn't (was 18 months ago though).

2012: Google staffs up ‘Red Team’

And this was literally just a Google away: https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/08/24/google-red-team-...

Re: Zuckerberg Takes Steps to Calm Facebook Employees

#82
post #5
post #2

I feel like someone should also give Zuckerberg the memo that it's only a matter of time before an insider also goes rogue and abuses data access (edit: or otherwise; see below). Facebook fundamentally seems to trust itself way too much, and it worries me that it thinks the only threats are external entities... to me, this is another silently ticking time bomb. EDIT: And don't forget that going rogue is just one scen…

You'd think so, but most companies have pretty strict internal controls for this sort of thing. Access is also carefully logged so a leaker is pretty much guaranteed to get caught at which point they'd immediately lose their job and likely face criminal prosecution. With so much to lose and so little to gain internal leaks of this sort are extremely rare.

[deleted]

Re: Zuckerberg Takes Steps to Calm Facebook Employees

#83
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was true at Google. Yes, because Google is not your average company. It takes security extremely seriously... in fact it's about as awful of an example as you can give for a blanket statement you made about "most companies".

I'm not sure if Google even has an internal red team that performs breaches, last time I talked with someone there at a conference they didn't (that was 2016). So I am not sure Google has metrics on how easy it is to gain access by an adversary.

[deleted]

Re: Zuckerberg Takes Steps to Calm Facebook Employees

#84
post #2

I feel like someone should also give Zuckerberg the memo that it's only a matter of time before an insider also goes rogue and abuses data access (edit: or otherwise; see below). Facebook fundamentally seems to trust itself way too much, and it worries me that it thinks the only threats are external entities... to me, this is another silently ticking time bomb. EDIT: And don't forget that going rogue is just one scen…

"Our efforts to protect our company data or the information we receive may also be unsuccessful due to software bugs or other technical malfunctions, employee error or malfeasance , government surveillance, or other factors. "In addition, third parties may attempt to fraudulently induce employees or users to disclose information in order to gain access to our data or our users' data ." "Although we have developed sys…

[deleted]

Re: Zuckerberg Takes Steps to Calm Facebook Employees

#85
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if Google even has an internal red team that performs breaches, last time I talked with someone there at a conference they didn't (that was 2016). So I am not sure Google has metrics on how easy it is to gain access by an adversary.

> I'm not sure if Google even has an internal red team, last time I talked with someone there they didn't (was 18 months ago though). 2012: Google staffs up ‘Red Team’ And this was literally just a Google away: https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/08/24/google-red-team-...

Red team is an overloaded term: "Analyze software and services from a privacy perspective, ensuring they are in line with Google's stated privacy policies, practices, and the expectations of our users." Doesn't sound like adversary simulation to me.

Re: Zuckerberg Takes Steps to Calm Facebook Employees

#86
post #40

I respect Facebook and their engineering chops as much as the next person, they are truly world class programmers, but how the holy hell is everyone daydreaming that they don’t work for an advertising company? You sell and use people’s data to get money: this is the business plan. Full stop. Connecting people can definitely be lucrative and useful in other ways but facebooks particular implementation is impression ba…

Because they’re paid well. Very well. Everyone I know that works at FB for 2+ years is making 300-500k (including stock) and already owns or is on their way to purchasing a home. That makes it a lot easier to ignore the reality of FB. Meanwhile chumps like me that consider the ethics of their employer will be renting forever. I honestly don’t blame them.

Re: Zuckerberg Takes Steps to Calm Facebook Employees

#87
post #78

Facebook's Board of Directors is a remarkable collection of silent-yet-complicit heavyweights: -Marc Andreessen; -Erskine Bowles ("President Emeritus of the University of North Carolina" and "White House Chief of Staff from 1996 to 1998"); -Ken Chenault ("Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of American Express Company"); -Susan Desmond-Hellmann ("Chief Executive Officer of The Gates Foundation" and former "Chancello…

probably because speaking out would cause more trouble than its worth. i recall an Uber director decided to open his mouth during the incidents of last year...

Or recall the HP leaks.

Re: Zuckerberg Takes Steps to Calm Facebook Employees

#88
post #10

Facebook is an enabler for individuals to successfully undermine our democratic mechanisms. It shouldn't feel nice to work for a company that has to explain itself in front of the government. The employees of Facebook should be aware of what monster they are building.

This is why they’re being “calmed” and kept comfortable. In the immortal words of Pickle Rick, I think it's helped a lot of people get comfortable and stop panicking, which is a state of mind we value in the animals we eat, but not something I want for myself.

Plus they can bury any qualms they have in piles of money and rationalizations.

Re: Zuckerberg Takes Steps to Calm Facebook Employees

#89
On the plus side, it's good to know that Facebook has employees who care about being ethical citizens of the Internet ecosystem. Hopefully they can exert pressure on the upper ranks in some way to bring things under control. Facebook has the opportunity to be a force for good, while also accomplishing its business model, but it won't naturally lean in that direction.

Re: Zuckerberg Takes Steps to Calm Facebook Employees

#90
post #5
post #2

I feel like someone should also give Zuckerberg the memo that it's only a matter of time before an insider also goes rogue and abuses data access (edit: or otherwise; see below). Facebook fundamentally seems to trust itself way too much, and it worries me that it thinks the only threats are external entities... to me, this is another silently ticking time bomb. EDIT: And don't forget that going rogue is just one scen…

You'd think so, but most companies have pretty strict internal controls for this sort of thing. Access is also carefully logged so a leaker is pretty much guaranteed to get caught at which point they'd immediately lose their job and likely face criminal prosecution. With so much to lose and so little to gain internal leaks of this sort are extremely rare.

> so little to gain

wait, what?

There's quite a lot to be gained. Enough to incentivize a very powerful attacker, possibly even a nation-state level actor who can extract the mole and protect / reward them.

The stakes are not low here; I can't imagine why you've said that.

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