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Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

businessinsider.com

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Re: Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

#71

Post by glhaynes »

darawk wrote: post #55
jpttsn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s Apple cared only about issues like this. In the slightest is too narrow. Plausibly they care for many things and trade them off.

That's fair. My point is only that self-interest explains more variance here than caring about privacy. They may genuinely care about privacy to some degree - just as i'm sure Google and Facebook do. They both just care about profit more, and for Google/FB, those things come into conflict. For Apple they don't.

Your stance seems unfalsifiable. If a company did exist that cared more about their values than profit, how would you recognize it?

But more importantly: who cares? We’re not judging whether Tim Cook oughta get into heaven.

People seem highly driven by the profit motive, arguably more than by most other motives. If Apple’s goals are aligned with mine and motivated by profit so they’re likely to be careful to keep from damaging their reputation... great!

Re: Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

#72

Post by jacksmith21006 »

Yet Cook hand over their customers data to the Chineese government?

Not sure people that live in glass houses should throw rocks.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy... Campaign targets Apple over privacy betrayal for Chinese iCloud ...

Re: Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

#73

Post by thisacctforreal »

tony101 wrote: post #52

It is worth noting that Tim Cook said this in China, where Apple happily hands over all user data to the Chinese government. http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/28/technology/apple-icloud-data...

It is worth noting that disabling iCloud backups and iCloud features vastly limits what data Apple ever sees. iOS+passphrase is the best security available.

Re: Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

#74

Post by voddy_ »

darawk wrote: post #51
millstone wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course Google will tell you that cigarettes cause cancer and climate change is a threat: they don't sell tobacco or drill for oil! They're just looking out for their own interests. Apple actively chooses to not pursue these revenue streams even though they have the resources and reach to do so.

> Apple actively chooses to not pursue these revenue streams even though they have the resources and reach to do so. I disagree. Apple can't compete in those spaces effectively because they're already owned by Google/FB. Microsoft has similar resources to Apple, and they tried to compete with Google on search - look how that turned out. Even Google can't compete with FB in social, look at Google Plus. Apple has, inte…

I like the reward system with-in Bing. Covered the cost of my kids Xbox gold/live subscription.

Re: Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

#75

Post by yardie »

jodrellblank wrote: post #59
kerng wrote: post #49

It makes a difference having a CEO that is so vocal about this, it changes what everyone in the org does and sees as "right". It's a good thing. At Facebook the understanding seems to be more Orwellian community like, spearheaded by Mark Zuckerberg. They envision and build a future where everyone is under surveillance at all times - so collecting a bit more doesn't matter, more to the contrary. Last week there was a…

the CLOUD Act (S. 2383 and H.R. 4943), a measure pushed by Apple and other tech industry giants but strongly opposed by privacy advocates. - https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/03/23/apple-supported-c...

They didn’t push it. They were just glad something was finally in writing. The alternative was letting the courts and companies battle it out. And all it takes is one bad precedent to fuck everyone. Laws are malleable, they can be massaged through the courts and have to be to be renewed. Precedents are much harder to fix and can only be overturned in a higher court. No one is happy about this, but they are relieved.

Re: Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

#76

Post by mung »

darawk wrote: post #34
mitchty wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple loves privacy and hates freedom. It sure looks like the only thing they actually care about is their financial interest. Hates freedome how? This statement is overbroad. In a nutshell, I would rather support Apple as they're primarily a hardware company that has stated their privacy interests align with mine. As opposed to me supporting an advertising company that happens to sell phones and produce a mobile o…

> Hates freedome how? This statement is overbroad. In the sense that their devices are not free. > Besides which, I just want to use my phone, not spend endless hours fucking around with it to install all manner of stuff. The fact that you don't want to use it that way is hardly relevant to the question of freedom . Listen, i'm not saying they should spend a bunch of time engineering a solution to support this use ca…

They are just preventing several potential headaches in their view. If I build something and I don't want end users to do X with it, I'm entitled to do that. If the user doesn't like it, the user can go elsewhere. Those are the terms I set as the vendor and you are free to not engage, you have other choices.

In short, you are still free to not buy their hardware.

Re: Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

#77

Post by kendallpark »

I think there have been some valid points made in this thread about business models. Facebook is the least diversified company out of the big five when it comes to how much of their business model depends on collecting user data (and how personal that data is). At the same time, Facebook, Amazon, Google, Apple, and Microsoft weren't just handed their business models. Each company decided to what (and what not) to pursue, and how they would pursue it. (Can anyone forget how utterly PUSHY Facebook was at getting people to use Messenger?)

At the end of the day we all checked off Facebook's EULA and Privacy Policy box and uploaded thousands of artifacts from our lives onto the platform. Perhaps it was a bit naive and overly trusting, but it was our decision. This does not dissolve Facebook of its ethical responsibility to not abuse customer data, but we, at the same time, shouldn't think that we're handing off our private data to some benevolent force that's just going to hold onto it without using it for their own gain.

TBH what disturbs me the most is how much data Facebook has on people's children. There's going to be an entire generation of people whose conception to high school graduation has been archived in Facebook servers, without their consent.

Re: Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

#78

Post by [deleted] »

kerng wrote: post #49

It makes a difference having a CEO that is so vocal about this, it changes what everyone in the org does and sees as "right". It's a good thing. At Facebook the understanding seems to be more Orwellian community like, spearheaded by Mark Zuckerberg. They envision and build a future where everyone is under surveillance at all times - so collecting a bit more doesn't matter, more to the contrary. Last week there was a…

[deleted]

Re: Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

#79

Post by [deleted] »

kerng wrote: post #49

It makes a difference having a CEO that is so vocal about this, it changes what everyone in the org does and sees as "right". It's a good thing. At Facebook the understanding seems to be more Orwellian community like, spearheaded by Mark Zuckerberg. They envision and build a future where everyone is under surveillance at all times - so collecting a bit more doesn't matter, more to the contrary. Last week there was a…

[deleted]

Re: Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

#80

Post by woweeeee »

kerng wrote: post #49

It makes a difference having a CEO that is so vocal about this, it changes what everyone in the org does and sees as "right". It's a good thing. At Facebook the understanding seems to be more Orwellian community like, spearheaded by Mark Zuckerberg. They envision and build a future where everyone is under surveillance at all times - so collecting a bit more doesn't matter, more to the contrary. Last week there was a…

  operating devices owned by an employer 
  is strike one. It’s not your personal 
  property. You didn’t buy it from the store, 
  you give it back when you quit or get fired, 
  right?
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