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Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

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Re: Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

#51
post #2

Of course Tim Cook would say that. His business model doesn't depend on it. When he decides to unwall the iPhone garden, i'll give him the time of day on issues like this. Until then, he's just looking out for his own interests, as far as i'm concerned.

Of course Google will tell you that cigarettes cause cancer and climate change is a threat: they don't sell tobacco or drill for oil! They're just looking out for their own interests. Apple actively chooses to not pursue these revenue streams even though they have the resources and reach to do so.

> Apple actively chooses to not pursue these revenue streams even though they have the resources and reach to do so.

I disagree. Apple can't compete in those spaces effectively because they're already owned by Google/FB. Microsoft has similar resources to Apple, and they tried to compete with Google on search - look how that turned out. Even Google can't compete with FB in social, look at Google Plus.

Apple has, intelligently, recognized that they cannot compete in that space. So they aren't trying. They are then using that to their advantage, by focusing on privacy, which is something their competitors cannot focus on. It's a perfectly legitimate strategy, and there's nothing wrong with them doing that. I support it wholeheartedly.

On the contrary however, it is not in Apple's strategic interest to give users's sovereignty over their devices. In both cases, their behavior aligns not with user interests, but with their own. Being financially self-interested better explains the sum total of Apple's behavior than any interest in user well-being.

Re: Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

#53
post #19

I hope Apple follows up on this by actually lobbying for a GDPR bill to be passed in the US.

Good point. I see a lot of good things coming with GDPR, foremost a realization that its NOT ok to just store personal data without meaningful reasons and abilities to let one know what a company stores about them. It's not perfect, rather ambitious in can cases, but I like how these conversations are now happening more broadly.

Re: Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

#54
post #2

Of course Tim Cook would say that. His business model doesn't depend on it. When he decides to unwall the iPhone garden, i'll give him the time of day on issues like this. Until then, he's just looking out for his own interests, as far as i'm concerned.

Correct. They didn't build a business model around doing something unethical, which eventual can get the entire company in trouble - so great strategic leadership I'd say.

Re: Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

#55
post #10
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't align their business model in order to further privacy, though. It just happened to shake out that way. If Apple cared in the slightest about issues like this, they wouldn't make it impossible to control your own hardware when you buy an iPhone.

That’s Apple cared only about issues like this. In the slightest is too narrow. Plausibly they care for many things and trade them off.

That's fair. My point is only that self-interest explains more variance here than caring about privacy. They may genuinely care about privacy to some degree - just as i'm sure Google and Facebook do. They both just care about profit more, and for Google/FB, those things come into conflict. For Apple they don't.

Re: Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

#56
post #21
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opening up iMessage to Android users would definitely reduce Facebook's collection of user data, since friends wouldn't be compelled to use FB Messenger. But yeah it's not in his business model.

Compelled to use FB Messenger when WhatsApp is available? I don't think there are many people who have FB, but not WhatsApp.

You know the phone numbers of all of your FB contacts?

Getting someone's phone number has always felt like a much higher bar than their FB since you could harass them with calls, SMS, etc and it's more difficult to block. Plus there's an implicit sexual connotation if you ask a woman for her phone number that doesn't apply to Facebook or LinkedIn.

I really don't like how WhatsApp piggybacks on phone numbers and phone contacts but clearly I'm in a tiny minority given how successful they've become.

Re: Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

#57
post #34
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple loves privacy and hates freedom. It sure looks like the only thing they actually care about is their financial interest. Hates freedome how? This statement is overbroad. In a nutshell, I would rather support Apple as they're primarily a hardware company that has stated their privacy interests align with mine. As opposed to me supporting an advertising company that happens to sell phones and produce a mobile o…

> Hates freedome how? This statement is overbroad. In the sense that their devices are not free. > Besides which, I just want to use my phone, not spend endless hours fucking around with it to install all manner of stuff. The fact that you don't want to use it that way is hardly relevant to the question of freedom . Listen, i'm not saying they should spend a bunch of time engineering a solution to support this use ca…

The fact that they make it hard is what guarantees that there's a large pool of people with stock iphones. And this pool is too big a market to ignore, which is why I can have good apps, even from companies I don't trust, and deny them permissions I don't want to grant.

I think Apple understands this. The freedom you desire has ecosystem effects which I don't want.

You may quibble about precisely how hard is hard enough. Maybe they could loosen up a little bit, walk some middle path, and satisfy both of our desires. Maybe. Has anyone done it? Apparently people will sign anything you ask them to in order to play farmville. And every jailbreak seems like a security hole I'd rather not have.

Re: Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

#58
post #55
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s Apple cared only about issues like this. In the slightest is too narrow. Plausibly they care for many things and trade them off.

That's fair. My point is only that self-interest explains more variance here than caring about privacy. They may genuinely care about privacy to some degree - just as i'm sure Google and Facebook do. They both just care about profit more, and for Google/FB, those things come into conflict. For Apple they don't.

[deleted]

Re: Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

#59
post #49

It makes a difference having a CEO that is so vocal about this, it changes what everyone in the org does and sees as "right". It's a good thing. At Facebook the understanding seems to be more Orwellian community like, spearheaded by Mark Zuckerberg. They envision and build a future where everyone is under surveillance at all times - so collecting a bit more doesn't matter, more to the contrary. Last week there was a…

the CLOUD Act (S. 2383 and H.R. 4943), a measure pushed by Apple and other tech industry giants but strongly opposed by privacy advocates.

- https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/03/23/apple-supported-c...

Re: Tim Cook says Facebook's collection of user data 'shouldn't exist'

#60
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tim has watched War Games apparently. iCloud exists but facilitates storing only core data and otherwise is a sync mechanism. Social aspects of iCloud are what's "missing" so even a large breach wouldn't result is 100x users being exposed. The most galling part of the FB failure was that the people breached weren't the ones who installed the misbehaving app. And society at large paid for it.

>And society at large paid for it. What's the cost again? I'm still experiencing cognitive dissonance over the fact that this is news here on HN. What Facebook was doing was common knowledge (for the last 8 years?). I assumed all those spammy facebook apps, like candy crush, had access to the entire social graph of facebook (not just US) or at least built it up over time. All those stupid "Log in with Facebook" apps…

Did you also assume they were exfiltrating that data and selling/giving it to third parties? I didn't.
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